Considering a PHEV as next car

[KevinBattle]

Hi, new here, so not sure of etiquettes etc, but hoping for helpful guidance.
We currently have a Sportage which quite happy with so no pressure to replace but.....
We'd like a car to do short shopping etc runs, so an EV would generally have the range however we also do long runs to Devon, Wales and drive down to Spain, so an EV only doesn't appear to have the volume and range we'd need.

The Outlander 2019 PHEV seems to come closest so far to what we'd like, an EV mode locally yet with a back up petrol motor that can hack long distances if no charge points available. Possibly the 4hs spec but Juro seems well equipped, is it worth the upspec to 4hs?

But what are the cons? it's the 2019 model we'd be considering, but anyone with useful insights into what potential problems you currently (see what I did there?) find with the PHEV version. We have 2 labs we take to Spain, is the boot area hot due to batteries or noisy that would prevent us considering the Outlander?

On the face of it, the Outlander seems to have the space and ability we'd look for, but is it the best?

What extra kit, such as chargers would you recommend, and should we start to drive like little old ladies?
Using the continental motorways we usually cruise for hours at the legal limit, can we in reality expect 130 mpg (WLTP) or is it down to the 50/60 mpg?

Lots more questions, but let's start the ball rolling!

Look forward to responses!

 

[STS134]

Cons? Battery degradation. http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3933

Do not expect that a PHEV can be a replacement for a BEV, even if your entire commute is less than the EV range of the PHEV. If your goal is to not use gasoline at all, then get a BEV. Even if your daily commute is only 20 miles, and your PHEV can supposedly go 22-28 miles before needing a charge, this is still going to kill the battery extremely quickly if you do it in EV mode, day after day after day.

 

[jdsx]

It probably depends on just how often you want to use it for long distances. Although it is capable of a long motorway journey, it only has a 10-gallon tank and will only do 30-35mpg at around 70mph. In that scenario, it is essentially a heavy (2 tonne) brick-shaped object powered by a 2-litre (or 2.4 litre) petrol engine. So fuel economy on that long trip will be considerably worse than a diesel, and you will have to stop more often.
On the other hand, for short journeys there is very little to compare with it, outside a BEV (=EV only). It certainly wont be hotter or noisier than any other SUV in the back, in fact the inside of a PHEV is considerably quieter (IMO) than most cars, outside really expensive models.
I've driven my 2014 4h nearly 40,000 miles over 4 and a half years, and am averaging about 150 mpg (excluding the electricity costs, obvs), but I do mostly short journeys. Regarding battery degradation, I would say that I probably have about 80-85% of the original distance on the GOM ('guess-o-meter), i.e. when new it usually estimated around 28 miles and is now usually around 24 miles. Since my commute is around 10 miles each way, this has little or no impact on me, but I realise it may on others.
I am considering going for a Juro model next time - Mitsubishi have improved this over the previous 3h model, and there's very little I would miss from the 4h. The 4hs has various additional things like adaptive cruise control and lane departure warning which I find very annoying and just switch off, but obviously that's a matter of personal taste!
You might like to consider a Kia Niro PHEV, or possibly a Passat GTE (if they're still available). Or the Skoda Superb PHEV is supposed to come out some time next year. But if you prefer a 4x4 SUV, there's currently nothing else the right side of £60K (Audi Q7/Range Rover PHEV!).
Happy to answer more questions if you have them!
HTH

 

[KevinBattle]

Thanks for responses so far, and keep them coming!
I just have to ask myself if I'm being stupid to pay £1,000's over the odds of a conventional engine to be a PHEV driver, when those £1,000's would pay for many hundreds of gallons of fuel! Where's the incentive to go for alternative fuels?
As far as range goes, 300 miles is about as far as we travel per driver each day down to Almeria, we each take about 4 hours and stop for lunch and dogs etc. It's sobering if you think that driving "normally" means mainly using petrol rather than stretching out the battery power.
Does anyone get the claimed WLTP range of 130 mpg? If so how? Driving everywhere at 30 mph?
I'm trying to see what advantage(s) here may be to "switch".
Daughters partner has an i3 with a lawnmower engine and very impressed with acceleration and round town drive, but not practical for us on longer trips.
The Niro seems a tad smaller and even the 48kwh Sportage version loses a lot of boot space, which is why looking at the Outlander as an alternative. It seems the best of the bunch in size and abilities, but isn't looking value for money when you consider the extra cost and weight to go electric.

Perhaps I'll wait a few more years until manufacturers have a drawing board up electric hybrid. I can't consider a pure EV as there isn't a reliable number of public charge points easily accessible. Even in France, which apparently has the best charge point network, only seems to have one in the Limousin area.

Now thinking I jumped aboard a bit too soon!

 

[jdsx]

When i bought mine, the plug-in car grant was £5K regardless of whether it was BEV or PHEV, so the list price of the PHEV was the same as the diesel (although in fact you could always get a bigger discount off list price on the diesel). Now it has fallen to £4.5k for BEV and £2.5k for PHEV, so the difference between PHEV and diesel is considerable. Unless you qualify for tax savings ('BIK'), there is little financial incentive for private drivers to buy PHEV....
The only way to get 130+mpg is to drive short distances and plug in frequently. In fact you can then get infinity mpg! The PHEV bit doesn't help with long motorway journeys - although a normal hybrid vehicle (e.g. Prius) is considered fuel efficient, it harnesses the braking to put energy into the battery, so it can then switch the engine off and use power from the battery. On the motorway, there is very little braking, so any hybrid (HEV or PHEV) is more-or-less no use. (The Prius is a much more slippery shape so it will get better mpg than an SUV on the motorway, but still not much better than a 'normal' car of similar shape.)
Not sure if the Hyundai Ioniq (PHEV or HEV) would be any use for you? Boot is probably too small....

 

[KevinBattle]

Your thoughts tie in with mine. I thought the only way to get 130 mpg would be by virtual total EV use, but hoped it could get much greater than 35 or so on longer trips but still drive at "normal" motorway speeds. If motorway driving is no better than a conventional engine, what's the point?

The Government grants always seem to be cut just when they would be most effective.
We were going to install solar panels but the change in payments came in, just at that time...
Now they've done the same for cars!

I've looked at the competition for PHEV/HEV etc and whilst the Kona seems to have the range, you're dependent on finding a recharge point when you need it, and they still seem too few and far between to rely on finding one available. In the UK there also seems to be problems with maintaining them in working order, so a back up conventional engine still seems necessary, so you have the weight of two forms of propulsion to lug around.

Then there's the issue of different charge suppliers, why? They're all providing the same thing!

I think there are too many obstacles for a PHEV purchase to make economic sense in our situation, nor does an EV "shopping basket" and a conventional car for longer trips. I'll wait and see what the near future brings in a more practical PHEV option.

 

[jaapv]

Cons? Battery degradation. http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3933

Do not expect that a PHEV can be a replacement for a BEV, even if your entire commute is less than the EV range of the PHEV. If your goal is to not use gasoline at all, then get a BEV. Even if your daily commute is only 20 miles, and your PHEV can supposedly go 22-28 miles before needing a charge, this is still going to kill the battery extremely quickly if you do it in EV mode, day after day after day.

Well, that is exactly the way I use my car and it is about 80% after 110.000 km and nearly 5 years. :roll:
I plan to drive it down to ten years and maybe 60% and have the battery reconditioned by that time. That should give it another ten.

 

[greendwarf]

Your thoughts tie in with mine. I thought the only way to get 130 mpg would be by virtual total EV use, but hoped it could get much greater than 35 or so on longer trips but still drive at "normal" motorway speeds. If motorway driving is no better than a conventional engine, what's the point?

The "point" is to encourage less pollution in cities, where we are dying in our thousands rather than the countryside where few people live and most motorways are. The PHEV meets the former perfectly and the latter adequately. You need to work out how much of your driving would be EV against when you are using pure petrol. NB. Even on the motorway you can still get "free" driving when coasting downhill.

BTW - jaapv is correct, STS134 (new owner) is being ridiculously alarmist over battery degradation. I am also still getting 25 miles per day on almost purely EV driving in town for the last 4 years. Actually, here is a thought :idea: I have the version without the electric heater. Perhaps that feature has an adverse effect, depending on how you use it?

 

[elm70]

Thanks for responses so far, and keep them coming!
I just have to ask myself if I'm being stupid to pay £1,000's over the odds of a conventional engine to be a PHEV driver, when those £1,000's would pay for many hundreds of gallons of fuel! Where's the incentive to go for alternative fuels?
...

1000 extra does not sound so much ... 1k extra initial cost, it will implies also a better resell price

But it is all depend by your car usage.

If the car is used as daily for a commute inside 25miles ... this will allow to save lot of fuel and money ... asssuming 20miles a day for 200 days (4.000miles in EV a year) ... the saving on going electric vs ICE .. is 533L of petrol vs 1300kwh ... with I belive it should be 800£ in fuel, vs 130£ ... so in less then 2 years, or with just 4.000miles in EV mode, the price difference is recovered

 

[KevinBattle]

elm70: the £000's was plural! Not just £1,000! (but you knew that really, didn't you?)
The cost of the PHEV is markedly more than the conventional engined Outlander, even with the UK Governments (now) less than generous contribution (which probably disappears into the pricing mark up anyway).
Just a quick Google gives these current prices from Mitsubishi
2.0 Petrol £27,680.00 OTR (and there's a £2,000 deposit contribution from Mitsubishi)
Diesel £28,670.00 OTR (also with a £5,000 deposit contribution).
PHEV £34,255.00

Now how much conventional fuel would I get for £5,500, let alone add the £5,000 deposit contribution for diesel?
Say £5 a gallon for diesel, that's over 2,000 gallons at say 50 mpg so about a years free fuel....

Get the PHEV down to £24,000 or less, then it becomes a selling point, but NOT at £34,000!

I'm fast running back to reality and that the PHEV is not a value for money option.
It looked a good performer but the price differential is absurd.

 

[elm70]

Yes, I don't know the price of a Phev, new in UK
I just know the fuel saving gain

I also know that list price has relative value, the Zoe in UK can be bought new with 25% discount from most of dealers

I guess you would need to enter in a Mitsubishi dealer and discuss about price and opinions

Also compare pcp / lease offers too

 

[HHL]

I'm fast running back to reality and that the PHEV is not a value for money option.
It looked a good performer but the price differential is absurd.

If saving a few bucks on fuel is your main consideration... forget it. Although there are a few scenarios where you rarely have to buy any fuel.

As a transition vehicle between full EV and a normal car, it is perfect. There is nothing quite like it at that price (for now). If most of your use is short runs with the need to occasionally travel much further than the electric range allows, it is a great car.

 

[greendwarf]

Oops, I had missed the new petrol only version - so yes, that is a lot of fuel miles, when you don't have our pollution problem to worry about, so buy that rather than the PHEV if you otherwise like the car. However, the diesel is likely to be something of a lemon in terms of resale as the government tries to tax it out of use - hence the big incentive from Mitsu now.

 

[Cobb]

Have you considered a nearly new car – perhaps a 4H – this I feel has some good extras over the Juro . Remember if you went for a 4hs its going to be in the higher road tax bracket since its price is over £40000. That would be the case even for a nearly new car or demonstrator that has been registered after March 2017. You might pick up a nearly new 67/18 reg Juro for around £25,000 or 4H for a thousand or so more , depending on age,( mileage -several below 5000miles on autotrader ), colour and location of dealer. It would still have the best part of a 5 year warranty and some of them are sold with 3 years servicing and a few extras included. Of course it would have a 2 litre engine rather than a 2.4 which you would get with the 2019 model, but I’m not sure if that will make a significant difference in experience or economy. Some feel that a few of the changes are not all for the better eg wheels, headlining.

I bought a nearly new 17reg 4H PHEV about a year ago (with 3000 miles on the clock) and I was lucky enough to get one registered before April 2017 – therefore no road tax. I followed this forum for a while and learned a great deal from it. I was worried about the consumption on long distances but driving at 65 -70 mph it usually achieves 38-41mpg. Driving locally as you might guess it uses practically no petrol. Typically on a 30 mile round shopping trip with a little on motorway I achieve 200mpg plus . Most of my shorter trips naturally use no petrol at all.

In a recent trip to France covering 1750 miles the car averaged 42mpg with a few electric top ups but just over 39mpg when the 180 mile range electric top ups added are taken off. Most of the time I was driving at or close to speed limits. The trip included Autoroutes, National routes and Alpine roads. In the mountains it was not unusual to pick up well over 10 miles added to the battery on downhill sections. In a trip the previous year in a plug in Prius (11mile EV range) I averaged 60 plus mpg but they are very different cars.

My view when I bought the car was it would not save money over some alternatives but I do find the Outlander very satisfying, comfortable, quiet to drive and a good size but not too wide. Its very relaxing both in town and on long distances. I certainly have had no real regrets over the last year although I miss the long distance economy of the Prius but I have gained over the shorter distances.

Of course you have to consider your own circumstances and preferences in your decision.

Have you test driven one yet it?

 

[Ovidiu]

Hello, everybody!
I just created my account and, surprising, in a couple of minutes here I am
Thank you all for the precious info I got from this forum and please allow me to tell you about my decision to purchase the Outlander 2019.

Fore each new PHEV purchased in Romania the Minister of the Environment offers 4.292 EUR. Another 1.394 EUR is offered by the same minister as a fact of low CO2 emission. Around 1.000 EUR is offered by the city hall thanks to the green local policy.
In Romania, after direct negotiation with the dealer, I managed to get the final price of 41.386 EUR (VAT included).

So, the final price I have to pay is 34.700 EUR. In September I paid 10% (I mean 3.470 EUR) for launching the production process and this month or early December I expect to welcome my new car

At this moment I drive a Subaru XT (2015) and a Suzuki Jimny (customized for hunting trips).

The decision to purchase the new PHEV was strictly based on my basic requirements:
1. Comfort
2. Security
3. Low CO2 emission
4. Low fuel consumption

Obviously, the PHEV is a fragile car, I mean this car is designed for asphalt only, please correct me if I'm wrong. Therefore, I decided to use the PHEV as a daily car and for domestic transportation (holidays in Romania, e.g.)

Please let me highlight for you the main advantages and benefits I took into consideration when I decided to choose Outlander PHEV:
1. In Romania we sometimes face dramatic winter, with abundance of snow and low temperature (up to -25 Celsius degree) => the 4x4 transmission is a plus.
2. I use to drive every day the first 7 Km in the village (50 Km/h speed limit), the next 12 Km on the national road (70 Km/h speed limit) and the rest of 2 Km in the city (with 50 Km/h speed limit) => the EV mean savings and the thermal engine run efficiently.

I am waiting for delivering process and come back with news about personal feeling on board