Climate control consumes battery while charging?

[skibum]

Hi,
This might be obvious to you all, but beeing a new Outlander PHEV owner since 2 weeks, you have to excuse me if that is the case. Didn't succeed in finding an answer in existing threads.

I have noted that if I pre-heat the car using Climat control, it seems to consume battery power, even if the charging cable is connected. I get a not 100 % charged battery as a result when I start my journey. Is this "works as design" or am I doing something wrong? I would like to have as warm car as possible with a 100 % charged battery when I start my journey in the morning. Is that possible?

 

[Andy123]

Oh. Not what I understood - I thought it used power from the mains as long as it's plugged in.

 

[aitchjaybee]

as I understand it, the climate / aircon / heater will draw direct from mains electricity if you have plugged in a 16A home charger. If you use the 10A supplied charge lead intyo a domestic 13A socket, it can't provide the power fast enough, so it draws off battery and replenishes by charging - but not fast enough to be full by the time you get in.

the pre-heat doesnt work with CHAdeMO fast charge by the way :-(

does that fit?

 

[anko]

Nope, not possible. Not even on 16 amps. The heater consumes about 4.5 kW where maximum of 3.3 kW comes in via the mains. The missing 1.2 kW is coming from the battery.

You may think it is be better to wait 10 minutes before taking off (per 10 minutes of charging), allowing the battery to be recharged to full. But this seems contra productive: you loose more energy via cooling down, then you gain by recharging the battery. And the lost heat must be regenerated .... from your battery.

 

[Andy123]

That makes sense - cheers. Shouldn't be an issue for me (assuming I take the plunge) as my normal journey's only about 5 miles, so even with a slightly depleted battery I should be fine (and warm).

Do bum warmers use much juice, btw?

 

[aitchjaybee]

Do bum warmers use much juice, btw?

No, negligible. But they are a rocker switch with low / off / high setting needing positive action to move. When my kids sit in the front they switch on high and leave it. I've driven to work many times the next day with a hot empty passenger seat as the switch is down low by handbrake so easy to miss that yesterday somebody left it on. (Only when car powered up, not all night on) Hadn't made a noticeable difference to range on the day at all.

 

[user 258]

Do bum warmers use much juice, btw?

No, negligible. But they are a rocker switch with low / off / high setting needing positive action to move. When my kids sit in the front they switch on high and leave it. I've driven to work many times the next day with a hot empty passenger seat as the switch is down low by handbrake so easy to miss that yesterday somebody left it on. (Only when car powered up, not all night on) Hadn't made a noticeable difference to range on the day at all.

Hi,
I think they take about 120w on full and half that on low, per seat obviously. As mentioned, fairly insignificant when compared to the electric heater which can consume 4,800w.
Kind regards,
Mark

 

[kljasdfbkjaaalke]

10 mins Heat takes 0,85 kW and 22 mins to recharge to full.
20 mins Heat takes 1,5 kW and 32 mins to recharge to full.
Around 0C. My own tests.

 

[Kim]

Good data,
I like data.
Thanks for sharing..!

 

[Titan]

10 mins Heat takes 0,85 kW and 22 mins to recharge to full.
20 mins Heat takes 1,5 kW and 32 mins to recharge to full.
Around 0C. My own tests.

So not much point in preheating then, if wanting maximum charge.

 

[greendwarf]

10 mins Heat takes 0,85 kW and 22 mins to recharge to full.
20 mins Heat takes 1,5 kW and 32 mins to recharge to full.
Around 0C. My own tests.

So not much point in preheating then, if wanting maximum charge.

Maybe this is why the ICE kicks in automatically - to offset the "lost" battery power :?:

 

[anko]

No. The ICE kicks in when you do NOT preheat.

 

[Regulo]

10 mins Heat takes 0,85 kW and 22 mins to recharge to full.
20 mins Heat takes 1,5 kW and 32 mins to recharge to full.
Around 0C. My own tests.

So not much point in preheating then, if wanting maximum charge.

Maybe this is why the ICE kicks in automatically - to offset the "lost" battery power :?:

Not what I've found. If I pre-heat for 20 minutes, and immediately set off, the ICE does not start, even though the battery is not at full charge. Why should it? The heater will not be working at maximum, far from it. In fact, I've sometimes found it too warm, initially, and turned the temperature setting down.

 

[anko]

The heater will not be working at maximum, far from it. In fact, I've sometimes found it too warm, initially, and turned the temperature setting down.

Depending on inside temp, outside temp and preheat duration the heater may even work not at all for the first couple of kilometers. But I start to believe that lowering the temperature when you drive off is 'dangerous': If you set it to low, the heater fluid gets time to cool off and when the heater is needed again, the engine will decide to kick in because of the low heating fluid temperature.

Do other people share that assessment?

 

[aitchjaybee]

Same for me, yes. Though it's rare I've preheated too much.

 

[Regulo]

The heater will not be working at maximum, far from it. In fact, I've sometimes found it too warm, initially, and turned the temperature setting down.

Depending on inside temp, outside temp and preheat duration the heater may even work not at all for the first couple of kilometers. But I start to believe that lowering the temperature when you drive off is 'dangerous': If you set it to low, the heater fluid gets time to cool off and when the heater is needed again, the engine will decide to kick in because of the low heating fluid temperature.

Do other people share that assessment?

Ah, thanks for that. I do notice the temperature from the vents takes a nose-dive quickly when I start off, but I haven't noticed the engine starting up. Maybe I don't reduce the temperature setting far enough for that to happen?

 

[skibum]

Hi and thanks for all replies. Back to my original question;
- How can I start my journey with a fully charged Battery and a varm car?

Living in the North where we are below freezing substantial parts of the year, almost all cars have installed engine and interior coupé heater. Never been a problem in my previous cars to get the car warm, even if it took a while. Think my previous interior heater consumed max 1500W (it had high and low options). No idea what the engine heater consumed but since it was connected to 10 Amp fuze, it can't been more than 500 w = 2 kW in total. So why is Outlander PHEV consuming as much as 4000W for heating? I will definitely turn it down to 10 min warming but is the only 100 % solution to my question installing a "normal" car heater resulting that I need to connect two cables(I assume); one for battery charging and another for heating motor and cab?

I followup question in this matter:
Can I take advantage in the fact that the battery is getting warm during charging? I mean will I benefit if the charging is completed just before I start my journey from a warming up the car interior perspective? Or is that separate systems?

cheers!

 

[jdsx]

Hi and thanks for all replies. Back to my original question;
- How can I start my journey with a fully charged Battery and a varm car?

Living in the North where we are below freezing substantial parts of the year, almost all cars have installed engine and interior coupé heater. Never been a problem in my previous cars to get the car warm, even if it took a while. Think my previous interior heater consumed max 1500W (it had high and low options). No idea what the engine heater consumed but since it was connected to 10 Amp fuze, it can't been more than 500 w = 2 kW in total. So why is Outlander PHEV consuming as much as 4000W for heating? I will definitely turn it down to 10 min warming but is the only 100 % solution to my question installing a "normal" car heater resulting that I need to connect two cables(I assume); one for battery charging and another for heating motor and cab?

I followup question in this matter:
Can I take advantage in the fact that the battery is getting warm during charging? I mean will I benefit if the charging is completed just before I start my journey from a warming up the car interior perspective? Or is that separate systems?

cheers!

The answer to your first question is, I think, you can't. Unless like me you live up a hill and can 're-gen' on your way out in the morning :mrgreen: Perhaps this should be the next request to Mitsubishi....please can we limit the heater power to 3.3 kW :lol: :lol: