Check engine light, - 20C, Canadian model

[Openair]

2018 outlander phev Canadian model had a check engine light this morning. First - 20c morning. Booked appointment for 4pm. Light went out before got it to dealer. Dealer said no stored codes. "It was a soft code and probably just because of the cold." Said they had multiple outlander PHEVs in today and same thing. Nothing to be done.

Does this vehicle really just throw a light because it's cold and really have "soft" diagnostic trouble codes that are not stored beyond 3 power cycles??

 

[Mitch]

Yes and yes.

In Germany, we don‘t have such cold (normaly), but in the manual is writen, if it is below -15 or 20 (out of mind), can can srop error and can even stop working.

 

[richr]

'Soft' or 'pending' fault codes are a feature of the OBD2/EOBD/JOBD diagnostics system present in all modern cars (after about 2001).

They get logged for things that are expected to be temporary and resolve themselves but if the issue keeps coming up then they'll trigger a proper stored fault code. For example the one misfire on a single cylinder of a petrol engine might not be cause for concern but if it's doing it every few seconds it could indicate a fault with a spark plug or injector on that cylinder. If the issue isn't detected after a couple of engine run cycles then it'll clear the code as the issue was clearly just a transitory one.

 

[Zuikkis]

-30C in Finland today, no check engine but tyre pressure sensor malfunction.

I checked the pressures and they are fine.. Have to wait for warmer climate to see if it fixes itself, or is it really broken.

I only had the car for two days, weather has been -25C .. -30C the whole time. Not much hope for pure EV driving..

 

[Openair]

Yes and yes.

In Germany, we don‘t have such cold (normaly), but in the manual is writen, if it is below -15 or 20 (out of mind), can can srop error and can even stop working.

And even stop working at - 15c?! I feel that is something that should have been made very clear before buying the thing. Hopefully that's one of the many differences between the north American and EU versions as it at least seems to run ok. Just giving faults. I guess it'll be my last mitsubishi if they'll sell vehicles here that are not built for the climate. I've NEVER had ford or chevy use weather as an excuse for a fault light.

 

[nils944]

There's a fellow in North Bay (Gary Reed) who posts YouTube videos about his PHEV including several cold-weather tests. In a recent video he was driving around in -35 C. See here https://youtu.be/uVLhAU-KPtk

He did mention that the Canadian models have a battery heater, which I'm guessing is a fan/air based system. I hope the models sold in Scandinavia have such a heater because I'm heading up north in a few weeks and don't want to get stuck in the mountains with a dead PHEV. :|

 

[Mitch]

The EU Model, or only the German one, has no battery heating, only cooling :x
Even the heated front window is not available in Germany

Coldest night this winter was -6 C and I had no issues.

 

[Openair]

Well Canadian model isn't much different. - 20c this morning. Vehicle won't completely start, won't shut off. Thinks it's still plugged in when it's not. Service brakes now. Service ev system now. Dealer says it's normal for these to start acting up in the cold but is towing it and will reflash it. In the 18 hours leading up to this the vehicle was plugged in the entire time but only drew a total of 0.5kwh. Doesn't seem to be heating the battery properly. Definitely last mitsubishi. First tow truck couldn't get the vehicle into N and had to call a special truck.

 

[Zuikkis]

Nah, several mornings about -30C here and no issues..

 

[karl]

I think our car didn't want to start a few times like that when it was new, - neither start or stop. I think a 30 second press on the starter button "fixed" it. Might be worth trying....

 

[Openair]

Wife says she tried holding in the start for 30 seconds. Nothing. Was at the dealer overnight. They found nothing wrong it this morning since it was much warmer out. Called mitsubishi Canada. Directed me to the manual and said they would call the dealer. Manual says nothing of the issues we experienced. Says nothing of check engine or any fault lights. Does say, in these temperatures we should see reduced performance or battery too cold messages. Neither of these EVER with this vehicle. Just service now messages. They will keep again tonight as it is supposed to go back down to - 20c.

 

[Openair]

They're returning the vehicle today. They say nothing is wrong with it. Mitsubishi Canada calling the dealer accomplished nothing and the tech never called me as mitsubishi Canada said they were going to.

Also the 12v battery is a controlled special order $400-500 part on this vehicle and if I replace it myself with a more reasonably priced one mitsubishi Canada tells me they'll use it as an excuse if the problem continues.

 

[greendwarf]

What has the 12v battery got to do with this?

 

[Openair]

What has the 12v battery got to do with this?

The cabin lights were dim as though the 12v was dead and a jump allowed the vehicle to start. My previous phev always had weird issues as the 12v got old and didn't supply stable power to all the electronics. Dealer says it's fine, was never discharged and not the issue but it was dead enough the interior lights were very dim so, like all lead acid batteries, has likely been permanently damaged by this deep discharge. So since the dealer has no clue at all and had done absolutely nothing I thought the usual <$200 for a 12v was worth it if it maybe prevented this again.

 

[Zuikkis]

Car is started with the EV battery. 12V just powers the entertainment system and lights etc. But it might be that car can't enter correct "starting mode" if 12V battery is completely dead, so this actually might be the expanation.

The 12V battery must be sealed and preferably AGM type, because it is inside the car. Regular lead acid battery can leak explosive hydrogen while charging.

Still I think $400 (CAD?) is a bit high, but if it's genuine Mitsubishi part it's maybe understandable.

 

[Openair]

Car is started with the EV battery. 12V just powers the entertainment system and lights etc. But it might be that car can't enter correct "starting mode" if 12V battery is completely dead, so this actually might be the expanation.

The 12V battery must be sealed and preferably AGM type, because it is inside the car. Regular lead acid battery can leak explosive hydrogen while charging.

Still I think $400 (CAD?) is a bit high, but if it's genuine Mitsubishi part it's maybe understandable.

I agree but the dealer says no. It's fine and both the dealer and mitsubishi Canada described me asking for it to be replaced as "insisting." Yes, the engine is started from the hvb but, my previous phev anyway, the hvb was disconnected when the car was off and the 12v battery is required to reconnect it.

 

[Openair]

Maybe the low 12v was just another symptom. It started again today with check engine light, powertrain fault light and service ev system messages. Luckily I am in training starting later than usual today and was able to pull the fault codes myself. 3 codes.

P0A84 - hybrid battery pack cooling fan 1 control circuit low.
P1054 - O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Signal Intermittent Bank 1 Sensor 2
P1A2D - hybrid battery 2 voltage low

The third is rated 3/3 for importance and difficulty of repair. I feel the dealer has been bulltshitting us the entire time as they claim there were no codes at all or only a "relay time out" code and would not be more specific when pushed. They likely have no experience with the repair required for the third and it would cost them more time to learn than Mitsubishi has allotted for the warranty claim.

Pics attached. (this forum kept saying file invalid for the pic of the dash in multiple formats)

 

[Openair]

Dealer returned the car again today. From what the wife tells me they didn't really do anything and are waiting for mitsubishi Canada to decide what, "if anything," to do about these error codes.

"If anything" seems absurd to me. Clearly the hvb voltage too low indicates the hvb is too cold to supply the power the vehicle is expecting. Whether this is due to a defective or malfunction part, as the other codes suggest or because the behavior of the hvb heater is not aggressive enough requires further diagnosis by the dealer. Not simply left up to corporate. The very fact that the hvb is too cold yet we are not seeing the hvb too cold or performance reduced messages (from the pages of the manual the dealer and corporate repeatedly told us to read) we should see if the hvb is too cold and the vehicle is instead going straight to faults is also a red flag. The logs from my juicebox charger also correlate with the issue and fewer draws to heat the battery, in colder weather.

 

[mellobob]

Just to make sure the problem is NOT with your charger, have you tried to charge in slow-mode with the supplied 110volt unit?

 

[Openair]

We can't. It would require an extension cord and the dealer was today questioning if we had used an extension cord because we're not supposed to use an extension cord as it maybe "damage the vehicle." I used an extension cord for years on my old phev without issue but I'm not about to give them more excuses at this point.

It seems unlikely it's the charger as it's load sharing on the same circuit as my Bolt and the bolt has had zero issues. Even if the bolt is pulling max, the outlander can still pull 8 amps and 240v without overloading the circuit and the smart load sharing will quickly ramp the outlander up to 16amps anyway. The chargers also report by email if they go offline and log the time they're disconnected. But I'll try swapping the bolt and outlander plugs.

Also the vehicle SHOULD throw a AC voltage low error for an EVSE issue. Or simply take the power from the hvb instead as it was full. Both my ford phev and the bolt are smart enough to do this. Not refuse to start.