Charging from the engine

[littlescrote]

This discussion is very interesting. Am I wrong in (generally) running the car in Normal mode and letting the computer make the decision when to switch between series and parallel?

Depends what your goals are and how long the journey is.

If it's short, you'll just do it all off battery. If it's longer, you may wish to save some battery for later in the journey eg. you're driving from your town to another town. You might choose to use battery in your town to keep emissions down in that urban area and stop giving your neighbours cancer, then use the engine in between in the countryside where nobody will be harmed, and then go back into EV when you go into the next town. You'd do that by starting in Normal and then switching to Save and then Normal again.

Or, if the same journey is quite long between towns and has a fair bit of motorway you could choose to stay in Normal until the battery is depleted, then go into Charge to build it back up again for the final EV part when you'd be back in Normal.

The car does not know where you are going or what you want to do, so cannot make the most efficient or clean decision for you. You have to think about it, and it's not difficult.

 

[zekeozzy]

FWIW here is my experience with charging or not charging with the engine. My first long road trip in my 2023 Outlander PHEV was 900 miles, I remained in normal mode the entire time after I depleted the battery and charged again in the evening at a charge station. Followed this process through the entire trip. My gas mileage was 21 mpg which I was not impressed with.

Did some reading and decided to try using the charge function when the battery was depleted and waited until the battery was back to 80% before switching back to normal.

I only ran in charge mode when on the highway and always switched to normal when I went through a city or town. My gas mileage was 36 mpg on this trip which was about 450 miles.

I am not an expert on the electric portions of the vehicle and have done enough reading to consider myself dangerous but, a difference of 15 mpg tells me all I need to know.

I am sure everyone drives differently so your results may be different but I am a fan of the process of alternating between charge and normal function while driving long distances.

 

[ckracer76]

I wish it defaulted to Save mode all of the time. I often forget to engage Save and deplete all my battery on the motorway.

I try to avoid charging by the engine when moving as it uses a lot of fuel sadly. Charging from the engine while stationary is a lot faster and more fuel efficient.

I plug in every night at home and enjoy driving to work on battery alone. Anything further and the engine kicks in especially in sub zero temperatures with the heater on.

My 2016 model has no EV only mode which is annoying. I have a manual handbrake lever. I notice the later models gained the EV only feature which I would like and introduced an electronic handbrake which I’m glad I don’t have.

I’m enjoying plug in hybrid ownership so far although the 4-cylinder engine is a bit rough around the edges and suffers vibration NVH issues at idle.

 

[greendwarf]

But if it defaulted to Save, then every time you started it, it would fire up the ICE. So same problem!

 

[kpetrov]

I wish it defaulted to Save mode all of the time. I often forget to engage Save and deplete all my battery on the motorway.

I try to avoid charging by the engine when moving as it uses a lot of fuel sadly. Charging from the engine while stationary is a lot faster and more fuel efficient.

If one want Save to be default should go for an regular hybrid.
Save and Charge can't be default cause they are active charge managing features which can leave you with bad efficiency if not used correctly.

Charging from the engine when stationary is faster cause all energy goes to charging instead of moving the vehicle but it is not more fuel efficient, definitely. Quite the opposite, worst efficiency possible.

 

[nrayanov]

To mention something. High revving for petrol engines means they are in their most effective state. This is why going on the highway and using Charge Mode yields such good results. Of course, battery charging is most efficient at around 50% SOC (so either use Charge or Save when near 50% SOC).

Following these recommendations (which @kpetrov explained in great detail but I mostly summarized for most folks) allows me to get about 5 liters per 100 km when I go over 300 km or better if less kilometers.

 

[kpetrov]

To mention something. High revving for petrol engines means they are in their most effective state. This is why going on the highway and using Charge Mode yields such good results. Of course, battery charging is most efficient at around 50% SOC (so either use Charge or Save when near 50% SOC).

Following these recommendations (which @kpetrov explained in great detail but I mostly summarized for most folks) allows me to get about 5 liters per 100 km when I go over 300 km or better if less kilometers.

Since in Series mode the engine is not locked to the wheels in theory it can always be in most efficient zone but all energy produced will come with mechanical to electrical energy conversion losses. This scenario will feed very high current to the battery though and that won't be ideal... probably that's the reason the engine is not constantly in it's optimal zone while in Series.

 

[michael8554]

"High revving for petrol engines means they are in their most effective state."

Sort of, it all depends on the design of the engine, and it's intended use.

"Normal" ICE engines tend to have peak power at higher revs than peak torque.

Hybrid ICE engines tend to have peak power at around the same lower revs, as peak torque.

High revs would not be the most efficient.

 

[twiggy144]

In my testing. Driving on the highway with the engine going (battery at 0 or close to) I'd get around 8-9 L/100kms , if I turned on charge mode I would get 12-13L/100kms

So I'd say it uses about 4 litres per 100kms

Is it reasonnable to assume it takes one hour in charge mode to recharge an empty battery to 61 km?

If so, considering the price of gasoline at $1.60 CAD per liter, and the price of eletricity at 0.12 $ CAD per kwh (residential rate, current gas prices and electricity prices in my living area in Montreal), the cost to recharge would be :

4 liters x $1.60 = $4.60 for a range of 60 km, or $10.67 to yield a range of 100 km

compared to the cost of running 100% fuel with a fuel burn of 10 liters / 100 km:

10 liters / 100 km x $1.60 = $16.00 for a range of 100km.

Can we debate on my assumptions? Your own experiences are welcome!

Just purchased a 2025 Outlander PHEV, taking delivery next week, and getting familiarized on how to achieve the best energy and cost efficiencies.

 

[PHEV07]

In my testing. Driving on the highway with the engine going (battery at 0 or close to) I'd get around 8-9 L/100kms , if I turned on charge mode I would get 12-13L/100kms

So I'd say it uses about 4 litres per 100kms

If you are driving on the highway and the battery is at zero or close to zero when the Engine runs it is also charging the Battery unless you are in Parallel Mode and the front wheels are driven by the Engine.

But this state does not last long because as demand on the Engine is reduced, the car goes into Series Mode which causes the Engine to act as a Generator to charge the Battery which in turn drives the Electric Motors. This is basically the same as Save Mode

Even when we place the car in Charge mode, the Generator charges the Batteries which in turn drives the wheels.

So it is virtually impossible to determine how much fuel is being used to charge the Battery alone.

 

[twiggy144]