Battery range

[jjrw]

I've had my 2015 PHEV for about 4 months and I'm very disappointed with the battery range. I can only get about half of the quoted maximum of 35 miles driving carefully on ECO mode. I feel that the stated maximum of 35 miles is dishonest and feel like suing - anyone like to join me?
Regards,
John

 

[maby]

I don't think you'll get very far with that - they are constrained to quote the figures achieved on the official test patterns - which suite the manufacturers of hybrids very well because those test patterns are very old and favour hybrids significantly.

I reckon I'm doing OK if I get 22 miles in summer and in the winter 15 miles is more realistic. I have managed 29.5 miles in warm weather driving it like a milk float on flat and almost empty roads - but this would not be possible in normal road conditions.

 

[user 816]

I don't think you'll get very far with that - they are constrained to quote the figures achieved on the official test patterns - which suite the manufacturers of hybrids very well because those test patterns are very old and favour hybrids significantly.

I reckon I'm doing OK if I get 22 miles in summer and in the winter 15 miles is more realistic. I have managed 29.5 miles in warm weather driving it like a milk float on flat and almost empty roads - but this would not be possible in normal road conditions.

Exactly! and not even done on a road, its done on a rolling road stationary so no hills or wind resistance.

The difficulty was set so low so that it suited any vehicle, even the most modest and weedy ones. The required distance, speeds and rates of acceleration are really low.

Official test values are only of use for comparing one vehicle with another and not for actual performance.

 

[greendwarf]

I don't remember being quoted any more than 32 miles :? Coasting in B0 will eke out the battery but equally uphill drains it.

 

[gwatpe]

I've had my 2015 PHEV for about 4 months and I'm very disappointed with the battery range. I can only get about half of the quoted maximum of 35 miles driving carefully on ECO mode. I feel that the stated maximum of 35 miles is dishonest and feel like suing - anyone like to join me?
Regards,
John

If the battery range is truly very low from new, you may be wise to invest in an OBD interface and EvBatMon and check it out yourself, or else pay your dealer to do it, or request it be done at the next service. It is only the battery capacity that the PHEV returns from the computer and the age of the car that MMC will act on. How you drive has a significant part in any battery range obtained. Your right foot and the weather may be responsible and not the battery at all.

My PHEV is 2014, and EV range is around 45km if I keep under 80kph. No snow either. :lol:

 

[MartinH]

I will reach the 50km quoted, without any direct problems.
My pattern is, 4km in traffic with max speed 60km/h, then motorway 100km/h for 11km, braking for a round about, then 90km/h for 4km, then braking for a round about, then 90km/h for 9km, then 5km in center with lights and braking, speed max 60km/h, totalt 33km and today i had 11km left when parking, today -5´C. yesterday i had 14km left.
AC of, no pre heating, no ECO, not driving especially gently, when i accelerate, i check the Power meter to not reach White area to avoid ICE to start.
Am i just lucky or have i got supermans car?
The only thing i might do different to other users is that my car have a 1500-2000kg trailer behind at least one time per week, I only use battery, but it will drain the battery in app. 20km.

 

[jaapv]

Caveat emptor. Do your research before buying. Relying on theoretical figures will lead to disappointment in real life.

There is an interesting in EV vehicle range comparison in this article:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/is_the_electric_car_mature

 

[GolfjunkyC60]

newbie question - how much can the regen braking add to the quoted 32 miles of electric. when the electric is turned off on the motorway does any of the power get put back into the batteries ?

 

[Carnut]

Urban driving with some quite big hills, using the paddles properly and coasting as much as possible. I am getting about 23miles on a full battery quoting (usually) 25. That is in current conditions anything between 31F and 47F.
I shall be most interested to see what happens in the so called English summer.
I will also be doing a long round trip (200miles therefore about178 on hybrid) with no charging facilities on mostly fast A roads. I am not expecting much over 25MPG. We shall see!! :?

 

[maby]

newbie question - how much can the regen braking add to the quoted 32 miles of electric. when the electric is turned off on the motorway does any of the power get put back into the batteries ?

I don't think it adds anything - but it can help reduce the range that you lose from real-life driving. The 32 miles are pretty much the best scenario - start off with a fully charged battery on a warm (but not hot) day and drive at a pretty much constant speed on pretty much flat roads till the battery is flat. Acceleration and hill climbing will chip away at your 32 miles - regen braking can recover some of those lost miles even when the car is being used in more realistic conditions.

The car will certainly slightly increase charge during high speed motorway driving in Save mode, but the increase is small unless you actually hit Charge rather than Save.

 

[GolfjunkyC60]

My Gh4x is due for delivery 4/4/16 and i am travelling from IG7 to Peppa pig world on the 8/8/16 for an overnight stay i dont think its going to be a very EV friendly journey. i have 7.5m from my house to the start of the M25 then only about 1 mile at the other end. then it will be 23 miles from Peppa pig world to the hotel after that the whole next day will have to be petrol all the way :-(

 

[GolfjunkyC60]

newbie question - how much can the regen braking add to the quoted 32 miles of electric. when the electric is turned off on the motorway does any of the power get put back into the batteries ?

The car will certainly slightly increase charge during high speed motorway driving in Save mode, but the increase is small unless you actually hit Charge rather than Save.

so should i use the save button or the charge button when motorway driving ?

 

[Tipper]

newbie question - how much can the regen braking add to the quoted 32 miles of electric. when the electric is turned off on the motorway does any of the power get put back into the batteries ?

The car will certainly slightly increase charge during high speed motorway driving in Save mode, but the increase is small unless you actually hit Charge rather than Save.

so should i use the save button or the charge button when motorway driving ?

Neither. Let the car do its own thing.
However if your end of journey is in city traffic then using charge will give you some battery power for that bit but no need to press charge before the last part of your petrol drive. I reckon 20 mins gives about 5 miles, but I'm sure someone will know better than me. :roll:

 

[GolfjunkyC60]

You say let the car do its thing but surely there's no point me doing the 7.5 miles from my house to the start of the M25 on electric then keeping it electric for the next possible 24.5 miles of a 90 miles motorway journey to then get to the end and have no electric for any town driving.

 

[maby]

newbie question - how much can the regen braking add to the quoted 32 miles of electric. when the electric is turned off on the motorway does any of the power get put back into the batteries ?

The car will certainly slightly increase charge during high speed motorway driving in Save mode, but the increase is small unless you actually hit Charge rather than Save.

so should i use the save button or the charge button when motorway driving ?

I think that depends on your perception of how the car performs on a flat battery. Personally I find it underpowered and tending to rev the engine higher than I like, so my policy is to keep the battery charge quite high most of the time. If I'm driving significantly beyond the EV range, I will usually hit Save as soon as I start moving and keep the car on save until I'm within EV range of my next charging opportunity. I do accept that this is likely to result in less than optimum fuel economy under some circumstances, but nobody seems to have been able to demonstrate a difference that I would consider significant.

If you browse the other threads on this forum, you will find some figures that Trex measured following extensive discussions on this subject. There is a general agreement that running in Save with a fully charged battery is not good for fuel economy, but it was not clear how this effect varies with charge level. Trex demonstrated that if you run in Save with a battery at 100%, the petrol consumption can increase by approximately 8%. By the time the SOC gets down below about 75%, the impact on petrol consumption seems to have dropped to something like 3%. If you are doing a long journey without charging, possibly stopping several times, the SOC will drift down even in Save, so I reckon that it will be down to levels where it is not significantly impacting petrol consumption within 20 or 30 miles. I will sometimes start my journey with the car in Normal and do a few miles to bring the SOC down to 75%, then keep it in Save until I'm close to my next charging point.

 

[GolfjunkyC60]

thanks for the replies, tbh not having the car yet means all things is meaning little to me but hopefully i will get it soon. what is SOC?

 

[maby]

...
...what is SOC?

"State of Charge"

 

[GolfjunkyC60]

so whats the simple difference between save and charge and when should they be used ?

 

[ChrisMiller]

'Save' mode uses the engine to keep the battery charge at (approximately) the level it was when you pressed the 'Save' button. 'Charge' will attempt to use the engine to restore the battery level to around 85% of full (similar to using a fast charger found at most motorway service area), but if you're driving the car fairly hard, it may not be able to 'keep up'. I personally don't think your fuel consumption would be drastically impaired if you never touched either button, but the idea is that you may want to use 'Save' to retain some charge for city driving at the end of your journey or through some known congestion area, like motorway road works.

I'm dubious that using 'Charge' can ever result in a fuel saving, purely because there are bound to be efficiency losses in charging the battery and then discharging it again.

 

[maby]

so whats the simple difference between save and charge and when should they be used ?

Save broadly tries to stop the battery discharging below the level it was at when the Save button was pressed. Charge tries to bring the SOC back up from low. There is some discussion as to how far Charge will go - in theory it should only try to take you up to 80% SOC, but my car and the Aussie ones we know of seem to try to get up to 100%

Save is your primary tool to control how you use your battery capacity. Different people have different strategies and claim that their particular pattern of usage gives the best performance or fuel economy. Personally, I can't be bothered fiddling - I start the car, immediately hit Save and stay on save till I'm about 20 miles from my next charge.

The Charge button is more problematic. In theory it should be pretty inefficient - you are burning petrol to push charge into your battery - with inevitable losses - and then later drawing on that charge to drive the motors - again with losses. There are some complicated theories around that patterns of use of Charge can result in lower fuel consumption, but I don't think anyone has come up with strong proof for any of them. It's main purpose seems to be to bring up the SOC in preparation for climbing some steep hills or towing a heavy load.