Battery Capacity (dying??)

[FreeSnow]

Dear Experts,

I have one question which I couldn't find the answer through the search on other articles.

On July 01, 2019 I bought a brand new 2019 Outlander PHEV S-AWC (mileage is 12 km )

When it is fully recharged, the number of km shown on screen usually is 40-45 km.

Starting from 5 days ago (Sep. 21, 2019), the number of km shown on screen reduced to 29-33 km when it's fully recharged.
My current mileage is 2775 km. I always use the slow recharging mode (8A) at home.
I always switch the gear to B3 when driving.
I used the button (charging) below the Gear shift lever once.
I have only recharged from those outdoor charging stations no more than 10 times.

My dealer told me it's normal to be like that.....
However, I'm still wondering if my battery is dying or not....
How come the max capacity drops from 45 to 29 within 3 months.

Thank you for any instruction!

 

[jaapv]

It is called a guessometer.
It does not indicate the state of health of the battery. It shows the expected range based on a number of factors, mainly previous usage. I have seen it as low as 20 km after a particularly hectic motorway run with a trailer and as high as 98 km after coming down a mountain pass (with the battery not even full). The main influence is driving style. A lead right foot kills range.
Switching on the airconditioning will bring it down by 30%. Often it will indicate "---" and you can still drive on EV in town for kms.

 

[michael8554]

As jaapv says, reported range is based on your driving style.
In stop start town conditions, use B5 to brake.
Coasting on gentle slopes in B0 is more efficient than regen with B1 (using no charge is better than loosing speed with regen)
On long journeys use up your initial full charge then alternate between CHRG and Normal rather than SAVE, but try and have some charge available for any towns en route.
Obviously as much B as possible going down hills.

 

[littlescrote]

Obviously as much B as possible going down hills.

It doesn't really matter - more B just changes it closer to 1 pedal driving rather than 2. If you brake with the pedal or use the higher B to keep your speed down, the effect is the same - regen will deployed as much as possible.

 

[MadTechNutter]

Obviously as much B as possible going down hills.

It doesn't really matter - more B just changes it closer to 1 pedal driving rather than 2. If you brake with the pedal or use the higher B to keep your speed down, the effect is the same - regen will deployed as much as possible.

It does.
Using the brake pedal is a combination of regen and wasteful mechanical braking.
Why I know that?
My brake pads squeek!
Regen doesn't.
I use the brake as little as possible.

Maybe that is why they squeek.

 

[MadTechNutter]

Dear Experts,

I have one question which I couldn't find the answer through the search on other articles.

On July 01, 2019 I bought a brand new 2019 Outlander PHEV S-AWC (mileage is 12 km )

When it is fully recharged, the number of km shown on screen usually is 40-45 km.

Starting from 5 days ago (Sep. 21, 2019), the number of km shown on screen reduced to 29-33 km when it's fully recharged.
My current mileage is 2775 km. I always use the slow recharging mode (8A) at home.
I always switch the gear to B3 when driving.
I used the button (charging) below the Gear shift lever once.
I have only recharged from those outdoor charging stations no more than 10 times.

My dealer told me it's normal to be like that.....
However, I'm still wondering if my battery is dying or not....
How come the max capacity drops from 45 to 29 within 3 months.

Thank you for any instruction!

I consider 29-33km a bit low for a brand new car.
You would have to be a lead foot driver or dive a lot too fast up hill.
It is a bit hilly where I am and by km I drive more on the highway and still get 50km
real range, but I consider myself an efficient driver and make use of the paddles a lot and the b3/b5 shifter to slow down, in steps.
I find it important not to regen too hard as there are more losses. When you use B5 AND the brake the regen can get very high, this is physically not ideal for the battery and I would expect heat losses come to play here.

What I also notice is if I accelerate very gently or reasonably swift to get up to 80km/h for the highway, in the end it makes no difference in my real range.
I need to get to 80 km/h and Newtonian Physics says in the end it is the same amount of work required.
The PHEV doesn't really allow you to overload the battery as it will just switch on the ICE if you accelerate too hard.
Where the losses happen is going up hills too fast where the battery and motors could generate a lot of heat as this high load is maintained a lot longer than just accelerating on a flat road.
Also using the brake pedal a lot, even regen has heat losses and of course the air friction from driving fast. 60km/h is the claimed ideal speed but if you would roll at 40km/h just on flat road you would likely get 70km real range!

It is best to look at the guessometer before your trip and after you arrived at your destination. Anything in between is B.S. Sorry to say that a bit harsh but it is really rubbish the way Mitsu designed it. It always assumes the current driving situation is always maintained and that is wrong.
So it gets a lot less when I drive up hill for 60 seconds and a fair bit more when I am down hill again.
They should have programmed it to allow more time to average out the different drive loads to get a more realistic estimate.

 

[FreeSnow]

From these previous replies~I guess my car is still in good condition~~~
Due to my work, I do have to go uphill /down hill 4 times a week, and I always use B5 in downhill, B1 in uphill.

Thank you for all of your professional / experienced knowledge!! I did learn a lot from these replies.

 

[STS134]

Dear Experts,

I have one question which I couldn't find the answer through the search on other articles.

On July 01, 2019 I bought a brand new 2019 Outlander PHEV S-AWC (mileage is 12 km )

When it is fully recharged, the number of km shown on screen usually is 40-45 km.

Starting from 5 days ago (Sep. 21, 2019), the number of km shown on screen reduced to 29-33 km when it's fully recharged.
My current mileage is 2775 km. I always use the slow recharging mode (8A) at home.
I always switch the gear to B3 when driving.
I used the button (charging) below the Gear shift lever once.
I have only recharged from those outdoor charging stations no more than 10 times.

My dealer told me it's normal to be like that.....
However, I'm still wondering if my battery is dying or not....
How come the max capacity drops from 45 to 29 within 3 months.

Thank you for any instruction!

The capacity has not changed. What's changed is the distance estimate which is based on a combination of capacity and usage (i.e. miles per kWh) based on the way you drove recently. If you drive uphill in EV mode, you'll see the range estimate decrease dramatically. If you coast down a long hill, you will see it increase dramatically. If I go up a hill in Charge mode and then coast down in EV mode, I have seen the range estimate go as high as 48-52 miles. Yes, miles, not km. If your display is set to km, you'd be seeing around 80.

It does.
Using the brake pedal is a combination of regen and wasteful mechanical braking.
Why I know that?
My brake pads squeek!
Regen doesn't.
I use the brake as little as possible.

Maybe that is why they squeek.

I don't think it matters at all. You can see the regen power if you go into the the screen on the infotainment system that shows EV system power/regen power/regenerated energy/fuel efficiency. If you are light on the pedal, you'll notice that it first uses regen, and then as you stomp harder and harder, it uses more and more mechanical braking.

 

[greendwarf]

Where are you Freesnow? - outside temperature also has an effect.

 

[FreeSnow]

Where are you Freesnow? - outside temperature also has an effect.

I'm from Vancouver , Canada.

 

[jaapv]

It is best to look at the guessometer before your trip and after you arrived at your destination. Anything in between is B.S. Sorry to say that a bit harsh but it is really rubbish the way Mitsu designed it. It always assumes the current driving situation is always maintained and that is wrong.
So it gets a lot less when I drive up hill for 60 seconds and a fair bit more when I am down hill again.
They should have programmed it to allow more time to average out the different drive loads to get a more realistic estimate.

I may be rubbish - in fact it is, even at the beginning of the trip-, but I fail to see how it could have been designed better. There is no way that the car can predict future use, so the only thing it can do is look at the recent past.

 

[greendwarf]

Where are you Freesnow? - outside temperature also has an effect.

I'm from Vancouver , Canada.

So, I imagine it is cooler now in September than at the beginning of July, especially overnight when you are charging(?)

 

[MadTechNutter]

It is best to look at the guessometer before your trip and after you arrived at your destination. Anything in between is B.S. Sorry to say that a bit harsh but it is really rubbish the way Mitsu designed it. It always assumes the current driving situation is always maintained and that is wrong.
So it gets a lot less when I drive up hill for 60 seconds and a fair bit more when I am down hill again.
They should have programmed it to allow more time to average out the different drive loads to get a more realistic estimate.

I may be rubbish - in fact it is, even at the beginning of the trip-, but I fail to see how it could have been designed better. There is no way that the car can predict future use, so the only thing it can do is look at the recent past.

What I mean is that it respond too quickly and directly to the different loads.
It should not assume that if I am driving up a hill that I am always going to drive up that hill but it does.

If I drive up the first hill which is less than 60 seconds it will almost immediately subtract over 10 km of range.
By the time I am down again those 10 km are back again when I include the 5km I have driven.
This is total rubbish. The guessometer should not respond so quickly but wait a longer period of time to make a prediction.

Basically it should smooth out these peak loads.
Mathematically this is achieved with integration. Electronically this is done with a low pass filter.

 

[Katmandu]

Using the Guessometer to assess your battery capacity is very inaccurate for all of the reasons stated in the previous answers.

If you want to know the current capacity of your battery you need a OBD11 reader to access your vehicles diagnostics and some software/app to present that information in a readable format e.g. PHEV Watchdog (an Android App).

A search on this forum or the whole internet for these will provide more information and examples of the data that you will be able to access and to some degree how to understand it.

If you do this be ready to find out the truth of what is happening.

 

[jaapv]

I am in a blissful state - as long as the car fits my pattern of use I could not care less. And it does after nearly six years. :mrgreen:

 

[IslandLife]

Where are you Freesnow? - outside temperature also has an effect.

I'm from Vancouver , Canada.

I'm over in Victoria, and noticed decreased range guessing by the computer just recently with the change in weather (last couple of weeks). Cooler nights cool the battery a little more, and if you are using the HVAC system at all it's probably using the heater more as the outside temp is cooler... these will lower the guesstimated range. This is my first year with mine (bought it mid August) and I'm assuming the guessed range will get worse as we get into the winter and then start to creep back up in the spring. Overall we're pretty lucky we have such a mild winter... not sure how the PHEV's over in WinterPeg do through the winter! Probably just a few kms of range a day?

 

[AndyInOz]

... Probably just a few kms of range a day?

Hang on, shouldn't that be: Probably just a few kms of range a day, eh?

:lol: