2016 37k Miles Battery Health

[Dorsetsi]

Hi,

I have recently picked up a 2016 model that has done 36k miles. Really pleased with the vehicle, however I am struggling to get more than 20 miles out of the battery, and that is with careful EV driving and heater turned off. Admittedly, temperatures have been low in the 2 weeks since I bought it, at below 10 degrees celcius here in the UK.

I picked up an ODBC2 over the weekend and ran Phev Watchdog against a fully charged battery. I got the following results:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MT_Y2B-WdUfAtSZ-XbULUlJj77HS_5CZ/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MKnoFfo9b6bCSjqR1VCaiaO1K-qJDLwN/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MW3VjLnFHGYh3HfgHbCErNBTbvNUSP7s/view?usp=drivesdk


Browsing around the forums, I am struggling to work out if 88% is an acceptable ammount of SOH remaining for a battery of this age, and also if any of the BMU reset methods people are using would actually make any difference to my battery, or if it would just reset the numbers for a coupld of days and make me feel better! Any advice greatfully received.

 

[VillageIdiotDan]

If it helps, I bought a late 2015 about this time last year and it had 85% so I feel like it's reasonable to have 88%.

You will get slightly better mileage on EV as you get used to it but unfortunately 20 miles range isn't unreasonable this time of year.

I'd say preserve the battery as best you can (obviously where you can help it: don't fast charge, don't charge immediately after using the battery, try not to hold the full charge too long before using it) and enjoy what savings you can manage. Polar may still offer 3 months free if you wanted to try to work charging away from home into your schedule

Hope that helps

 

[Dorsetsi]

Thanks Dan, it is good to have a comparison. I must admit I did expect a bit more resiliance from the battery. We also have a 24kwh 2015 Leaf similar mileage, and it has almost no degredation of the battery and still get 85+ miles to a charge. I will follow the same charging principles as we do with the Leaf and eek out what we can with it. My daily commute is bob on 20 miles, so I am just about there in terms of minimising the use of the ICE.

 

[jaapv]

People are forgetting that 100% is a nominal figure. A car straight from the showroom (old type), would typically show 37 Ah instead of the nominal 40.
So take your base as 37.5.
When new, I would normally get about 36-37 km for my daily commute out of the battery at this time of year. Now, after six years and 130.000 km, it is about 30-32. No reason for complaint.

 

[VillageIdiotDan]

People are forgetting that 100% is a nominal figure. A car straight from the showroom (old type), would typically show 37 Ah instead of the nominal 40.
So take your base as 37.5.
When new, I would normally get about 36-37 km for my daily commute out of the battery at this time of year. Now, after six years and 130.000 km, it is about 30-32. No reason for complaint.

Interesting JAAPV, is that the same principle as "useable battery" where I understand only 75% of the PHEVs batter is usable, versus about 90% of the Leaf? Does this imply the Leaf's battery is better quality and could it be that degredation occurs slower on the Lefa battery as a result? All supposition of course

 

[jaapv]

Not really a quality issue - more like a design choice.

 

[greendwarf]

Also it is not fair to compare a BEV where you charge it up and then discharge whilst driving before recharging, with the PHEV which features the frequent charge/discharge cycling when running the ICE. Also the PHEV has more complete charge/discharge cycles over the same period than a BEV = and we know it is this which limits battery life.

 

[VillageIdiotDan]

Also it is not fair to compare a BEV where you charge it up and then discharge whilst driving before recharging, with the PHEV which features the frequent charge/discharge cycling when running the ICE. Also the PHEV has more complete charge/discharge cycles over the same period than a BEV = and we know it is this which limits battery life.

Really good points Mr Dwarf, thanks for your input. I find the technology at my very basic level really interesting. I've enjoyed owning the PHEV and the change its had to my driving style, getting very tempted by the Kona

 

[elm70]

Hi,

...

Browsing around the forums, I am struggling to work out if 88% is an acceptable ammount of SOH remaining for a battery of this age, and also if any of the BMU reset methods people are using would actually make any difference to my battery, or if it would just reset the numbers for a coupld of days and make me feel better! Any advice greatfully received.

88% sounds quite normal .. still for only 36k miles an 3y old, it is very possible that the real SOH of the battery is a bit better .. possibly real SOH is around 94%

The BMU has a strange logic which cause to estimate SOH in a pessimistic way.
For example when the battery is consider new the 30% SOC is equal to 3.80v per cell, but then the BMU believe the battery is older or will less capacity, it does expect to have 3.82v for have 30% SOC (sometime it expect even higher voltage)
This cause the BMU to lower the SOH without any real reason ...

Making a BMU reset, will make the BMU to believe your battery is as good as new, and then the BMU will quickly adapt to the sensed capacity while charging and discharging , so it will lower the SOH to match ithe real SOH in a relative "short" time

Even better, would be to run a DBCAM ... there is a procedure to "fully discharge" the battery and charge it back .. and this procedure is used by Mitsubishi for properly calibrate the battery SOH in our PHEV

BMU reset, can be done by everybody with no tools .. while DBCAM needs a support from Mitsubishi service, or some MUT-3 equipment (as low as 80USD + an old laptop)

PS: Personally I'm happy after my BMU reset done almost 6 months ago .. I can't not notice any issue with it .. BMU is still lowering the SOH almost every second week now, from 37.9Ah after reset, I'm now down to 36.4Ah, still I'm enjoin longer EV range, which sometime is saving me to fire the ICE only for few unnecessary seconds .. once I go back to 36.0Ah SOH, I will repeat the BMU reset .. for go back to full EV range

 

[VillageIdiotDan]

Hi,

...

Browsing around the forums, I am struggling to work out if 88% is an acceptable ammount of SOH remaining for a battery of this age, and also if any of the BMU reset methods people are using would actually make any difference to my battery, or if it would just reset the numbers for a coupld of days and make me feel better! Any advice greatfully received.

88% sounds quite normal .. still for only 36k miles an 3y old, it is very possible that the real SOH of the battery is a bit better .. possibly real SOH is around 94%

The BMU has a strange logic which cause to estimate SOH in a pessimistic way.
For example when the battery is consider new the 30% SOC is equal to 3.80v per cell, but then the BMU believe the battery is older or will less capacity, it does expect to have 3.82v for have 30% SOC (sometime it expect even higher voltage)
This cause the BMU to lower the SOH without any real reason ...

Making a BMU reset, will make the BMU to believe your battery is as good as new, and then the BMU will quickly adapt to the sensed capacity while charging and discharging , so it will lower the SOH to match ithe real SOH in a relative "short" time

Even better, would be to run a DBCAM ... there is a procedure to "fully discharge" the battery and charge it back .. and this procedure is used by Mitsubishi for properly calibrate the battery SOH in our PHEV

BMU reset, can be done by everybody with no tools .. while DBCAM needs a support from Mitsubishi service, or some MUT-3 equipment (as low as 80USD + an old laptop)

PS: Personally I'm happy after my BMU reset done almost 6 months ago .. I can't not notice any issue with it .. BMU is still lowering the SOH almost every second week now, from 37.9Ah after reset, I'm now down to 36.4Ah, still I'm enjoin longer EV range, which sometime is saving me to fire the ICE only for few unnecessary seconds .. once I go back to 36.0Ah SOH, I will repeat the BMU reset .. for go back to full EV range

Elm, thank you for taking the time to give a clear view on options to extend range. I'm on the fence on the BMU reset, if it were easier I suspect I'd have done it. I know there is alot written on the subject but what is the easiest way to try to reset the BMU pls?

 

[jaapv]

I would ask your dealer to do so. As the car is still within guaranty, a DIY reset might impact a battery guaranty claim (if any )

 

[VillageIdiotDan]

I would ask your dealer to do so. As the car is still within guaranty, a DIY reset might impact a battery guaranty claim (if any )

I tried last month when it was in for warranty work....they said some newer models needed a bmu reset under warranty but mine wasn't it so they wouldn't do it

 

[elm70]

I would ask your dealer to do so. As the car is still within guaranty, a DIY reset might impact a battery guaranty claim (if any )

The procedure in theory can happen on normal usage, so I don't think this impact the warranty .. but it might open a discussion

In my case I'm not sure I have any warranty on my PHEV since it has been imported from NL ... plus ... I hear it is a long discussion before convince Mitsubishi for replace the battery .. which in my case for my usage, I doubt it will ever go so low in SOH which might trigger a replacement.

 

[elm70]

Elm, thank you for taking the time to give a clear view on options to extend range. I'm on the fence on the BMU reset, if it were easier I suspect I'd have done it. I know there is alot written on the subject but what is the easiest way to try to reset the BMU pls?

There are multiple threads here about BMU reset ... one I did started and I put all my "knowledge" on the first post

Yes ... BMU reset can be tricky to reproduce ... the highest success apparently has been achieved with Diode for fake a low voltage from the 12V battery

 

[jaapv]

I would ask your dealer to do so. As the car is still within guaranty, a DIY reset might impact a battery guaranty claim (if any )

The procedure in theory can happen on normal usage, so I don't think this impact the warranty .. but it might open a discussion

In my case I'm not sure I have any warranty on my PHEV since it has been imported from NL ... plus ... I hear it is a long discussion before convince Mitsubishi for replace the battery .. which in my case for my usage, I doubt it will ever go so low in SOH which might trigger a replacement.

With warranty, any excuse not to pay up goes. The car keeps logs, so it may well be detectable.

 

[Dorsetsi]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I think that I will hold off a DIY BMU reset for the moment and see if I can try my hand at getting a dealer DBCAM reset (however I am unsure if they can all be trusted to do this correctly). It sounds like one thing worth doing is trying to get the BMU to "learn" a more representative sate of the battery health and what it is capable of. This site has a guide of how to do this at the top - "A. FIX BAD BATTERY HEALTH DATA WITHOUT GOING TO THE DEALER?"

https://www.richi.uk/p/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-faq.html

I fully reccommend a read of the information and tips on this guys blog if you havent come across it already. There is lots of interesting stuff on here, not least on the dealer battery management procedures.

 

[michael8554]

Thanks dorsetsi, those are interesting FAQs I've not seen before.

 

[elm70]

With warranty, any excuse not to pay up goes. The car keeps logs, so it may well be detectable.

BMU reset has been detected by accident doing normal operations in the car

BMU reset is all about disconnecting and reconnecting the 12v battery, or sometime to have a low 12v battery

Having a low 12v battery can't invalid the warranty

Same for connect and disconnect the 12v battery can't void the warranty

 

[Bloggsy]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I think that I will hold off a DIY BMU reset for the moment and see if I can try my hand at getting a dealer DBCAM reset (however I am unsure if they can all be trusted to do this correctly). It sounds like one thing worth doing is trying to get the BMU to "learn" a more representative sate of the battery health and what it is capable of. This site has a guide of how to do this at the top - "A. FIX BAD BATTERY HEALTH DATA WITHOUT GOING TO THE DEALER?"

https://www.richi.uk/p/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-faq.html

I fully reccommend a read of the information and tips on this guys blog if you havent come across it already. There is lots of interesting stuff on here, not least on the dealer battery management procedures.

Really interesting, and some stuff I did on my last car (Nissan X-Trail) - I replaced the Differential oil and also back-flushed the heater matrix so it's good to see that it wasn't unique! :lol:

Thanks for sharing!

Cheers

Bloggsy