Upgrade to a 15 amp charger (Australia)

[peggyleung]

Relatively new to the hybrid world - hoping to get some clarity around chargers (we're in Australia).

We purchased a second hand 2014 PHEV Outlander a year ago. The previous owner told us that he is giving us an upgraded charger (15 amp) with the car (he has misplaced the original 10amp that came with the car). It's not until recently that we had a chance to upgarde our electrical outlet from a 10 amp to a 15 amp in our garage, however, upon plugging in the charger, we realized the charge time did not changed. We brought the charger to the dealership, and lo and behold, they confirmed that the charger we got from the previous owner is not a 15 amp, it is only a 10 amp.

Before we rush out and get a brand new 15 amp charger, we have a few questions:
- How much faster would a 15 amp charger take to get full charge (from empty)? It's currently taking us 4.5-5 hours using the 10 amp charger.
- Dealership has quoted us $850 AUD to get the 15 amp charger from Japan. But we have found this on the Evolution Australia site: https://www.evolutionaustralia.com.au/product-page/portable-evse-ev-charger-10a-15a-switchable. Is there anyone who has experience with this product?
- Is there anything we should consider before buying a 15 amp charger?

Thank you in advance for your feedback!
Peggy

 

[jaapv]

i wouldn't take the dealer's offer, but research the market. There are plenty of chargers available. Don't forget to look at 16A versions, as that is the most common value used outside Australia.
You will gain about an hour.

 

[BrianTheSnail]

I own and use the charger you linked and it's been working well - although we've only had it for about 4 months so far. I'm in South Australia and had an electrician install two 15A outlets in the carport, one connected to my off-peak controlled load and one to the regular house load. The charger is mounted on the wall adjacent. At night it's plugged into the off-peak, and if we're charging during the day from solar we just swap it to the daytime supply - simple but works well for us. I find the 15A charge rate is a boon for mid-day charging at the weekend where the car's been out in the morning and we want to charge before going out again later in the day; charge time is around 2.5 hours.

The charger can be set to 10A or 6A also via a weird shake-to-change method, but we don't tend to bother. Arguably it may be a bit better for the battery to charge at 10A overnight when there's plenty of time to do so, but really even 15A / 3.6kW is a low charge rate for the battery, which is designed to charge at much higher power than that during normal regen braking or via the CHADEMO DC socket.

View attachment IMG_3431.jpg

 

[michael8554]

My 240v 16A wall mounted charger seems to actually charge at 14A, and takes 3.5 hours from about 5 miles range showing on the dash.
I actually charge for no more than 3 hours to coincide with a 3 hour off peak period in the afternoon, aided by solar ev panels.
The Mitsubishi granny charger took 5 hours.

The "unplugged ev" guy linked to on the Evolution site is in Aus and has over 200 videos on his site regarding the PHEV, worth looking, and he loves his Evolution charger, the switchable amperage is kind to the battery if you can charge for many hours overnight.

 

[Craigy]

Is there any evidence that charging slower on AC is actually “kinder” to the battery? It seems incredibly unlikely that charging at 2.5kW compared to 3.5kW would be beneficial, e battery isn’t likely to get hot.
All you’re doing is wasting electricity as it’s charging for longer with the overheads on for longer.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

Indeed. Both are well below 0.5C, but charging at lower wattages just increases the losses to running the computers in the car. Not sure what it is in the PHEV, but I assume it's in the same ballaprk as our Zoe which uses around 0.25kW, so that's 10% wasted at 2.5kW.

Many people believe that it's "better" for the battery, but I've seen no actual proof that it is for the PHEV.

 

[michael8554]

0.25KW to run the car computer? I doubt they're any more power hungry than an Android Tablet!

Hmm, I wonder why a maker of ev chargers would offer lower charging rates?

 

[michael8554]

Well, having done some research, I see that Rapid Charging (80A?) with poor temperature control could stress the battery, but 16A and 32A should present no problems.

So I'm not sure why Evolution offer lower charge currents, perhaps to match installations with restricted power calabilities?

 

[ThudnBlundr]

0.25KW to run the car computer? I doubt they're any more power hungry than an Android Tablet!

As I said, that's what research has shown to be the overhead for the Zoe while charging. Of course, feel free to publish the results of your research if you know better.

 

[michael8554]

Sorry, I thought we were discussing the Outlander PHEV, not the Renault Zoe ?

 

[ThudnBlundr]

I gave the figure for the Zoe and said that I assumed the PHEV was in the same ballpark - similar cars performing similar activities. If you've got any proper info to add about the PHEV overhead, please enlighten us. Otherwise, don't be a dick.

 

[Craigy]

I strongly believe the lower rates offered are to allow you to charge from circuits with lower ratings. I’d find it helpful to be able to charge at 6A at work sometimes, I’m often parked for hours next to devices which are fused at 6A and being able to trickle charge would be great. It’s not worth me buying a new portable evse for though.

 

[michael8554]

You're assuming the PHEV and Zoe are similar, and I'm assuming the PHEV computer power consumption is more like a Tablet.

So watch your language.

 

[michael8554]

You're assuming the PHEV and Zoe are similar, and I'm assuming the PHEV computer power consumption is more like a Tablet.

So watch your language.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

My assumption is based on evidence: what's yours based on? Please enlighten us why you think the PHEV should use so much less power than the Zoe while charging, seeing that they're performing exactly the same task.

 

[michael8554]

Now you're changing the subject.

You originally said the computer uses 0.25KW, now you're saying the charge system uses 0.25KW, which doesn't seem unreasonable.