Tortoise Mode

[Fazer321]

Hi,

I am considering an Outlander PHEV for my next company car for obvious BIK reasons.

As always, (with any purchase !), I have looked at loads of reviews, had a really good look around the car at my local dealer in Derby and I am really excited about the prospect of owning the Car - I have arranged a test drive tomorrow and assuming that goes well will be ready to sign, but....

I have read a couple of reports, when towing, that a Tortoise symbol has appeared which has severely reduced the power available.

Although I have no intention of towing, would I ever expect to experience that mode in "normal driving".

"Normal driving" consists of a 5 mile commute to the office, (each way), but when visiting customers can be a few hundred miles round trip, (Typically 2 to 3 times per week).

I visit the Orkney Islands, (far north of Scotland), twice a year which is approx. 600 miles each way in a single journey.

Do you think I will have any Tortoise related issues ? (BTW I fully understand the economy will be around 30 to 35mpg when motorway driving, which is acceptable).

I would appreciate your experiences.

Thanks very much

 

[DazzyB]

My daily commute is nearly 60 miles each way with lots of high speed motorway. I've done this many times starting the day with no battery charge (except what is kept in reserve) and I've never seen a tortoise.

 

[anko]

Fazer,

Don't worry. Full stop.

I have been towing a lot. The maximum load. And I have seen the turtle twice, both on long motorway inclines in the Vosges in France. And both times, I did not experience any reduction in power. Just the warning. I have tried to exhaust the car purposely, both solo and while towing. And I failed. Same for fellow member Gwatpe, who got close but didn't make it.

Go for it.

Anko

 

[Regulo]

For your pattern of use, and knowing how hard others on here have tried to induce "tortoise" mode, I'd say you'll never see it. Go for it, you'll love it!
PS: If you're going way out of civilisation (sorry, Orcadians!), start with a full tank, it's relatively small capacity. Do they have petrol up there? :twisted:

 

[jaapv]

I saw the warning -once in 50.000 Km. Full load - Skibox, 160 KPH, climbing a loooong incline on the Autobahn. Let up the accelerator for a couple of minutes, never saw it again. No power loss. So- not a concern at all.

 

[Fazer321]

Hi All,

Thanks very much for all of your replies - It seems the consensus is: It shouldn't happen and if it does, it wont be for long and shouldn't affect performance.

Regarding the Tank size, I thought that might be an issue for me, (I currently drive a Diesel Mazda 6 averaging 58 mpg and roughly 650 mile range), but then I would never drive 350 to 400 miles without a break anyway- so I will just include a fill up during that break routine.

Regarding the Orkney Islands - yes it is remote but I am pleased to say Petrol and Diesel are readily available. (Sorry, I don't know how to insert a "Smiley" Symbol). The Orkney Islands are absolutely fantastic, (although the weather can be very changeable), I would highly recommend a visit if you get the opportunity.

RE The colour, I quite like Granite Brown or Atlantic Grey - what's best ?

Just reading through my initial request and this reply, (which I am about to post), it reads as though I have already made up my mind ! (Test drive this afternoon, so I will update later).

Thanks again

 

[raymie]

For the really long trip you could always stick a jerry can or two in the back for emergencies. 2 x 10l metal ones would be legal give you a decent extension to the range should there be an issue.

 

[greendwarf]

PS: If you're going way out of civilisation (sorry, Orcadians!), start with a full tank, it's relatively small capacity. Do they have petrol up there? :twisted:

Yes, but it's all in the sea :lol:

 

[Regulo]

Just reading through my initial request and this reply, (which I am about to post), it reads as though I have already made up my mind ! (Test drive this afternoon, so I will update later).

You're probably like most of us - do the research, whittle down the options, and the decision is made before you even get near a dealer! That's the advantage of having access to forums like these, you can ask questions of real owners, who have had real-life experience of the car. At least you get the warts and all picture, not the always sunny, air-brushed guff from the people who want your money!
Oh for the days when we bought cars based mostly on what they looked like. :lol:

 

[jdsx]

PS: If you're going way out of civilisation (sorry, Orcadians!), start with a full tank, it's relatively small capacity. Do they have petrol up there? :twisted:

Yes, but it's all in the sea :lol:

The best thing about Orkney, though, is that the electricity is 100% from renewables, so well worth making sure you can recharge while you're there! If you haven't watched 'Fully Charged' before, it is worth a look...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXe1hBvlylw

 

[rkde]

I tow quite a lot and with the maximum load, never had an issue

Generally my normal drive is 6 miles each way and I drive it quite carefully and never use any fuel as I pre-heat every cold morning. I have been to Scotland and Dorset and drive to clients which can be 50 ~ 200 miles away. On the motorway I just hit save and know that my mpg will be OK. my 40 mile motorway generally ended up at 50mpg at the speed limit which I can live with

When I have driven it hard it has been fine too and have no slow symbols come up

 

[user 816]

I seem to be the record holder of getting Tortoise mode and reduced power 3 times, without even towing.

It does take some very 'spirited' driving for a prolonged period to do it though. And as others have said its only very temporary, as soon as you settle into a more normal pace the engine makes enough power to pull you along and put a bit back in the battery.

Curiously it hasn't happened since I surrended my company fuel card and couldn't do 18mpg any more!

 

[gwatpe]

periods of Series Hybrid operation seems to be a key in getting the PHEV to maintain the 30% bottom end %SOC. Prolonged periods of higher power needs with Parallel Hybrid operation allow the battery to be drawn down below this level. I did notice that a slight backing OFF of the throttle, allowed the PHEV to drop back into Series Hybrid mode and this is when %SOC stopped going down.

I have seen that with a depleted battery, that the PHEV still allows Parallel Hybrid operation, possibly due to the slightly more efficient fuel economy it offers, but with a consequence of allowing the battery to be drawn down to the reduced power level. The PHEV does a good job with most driving circumstances to maintain power for driving needs.

For my needs, just maintaining a higher battery level will still allow for parallel hybrid operation when I want the PHEV to use it, with the associated lower ICE engine rpm. This comes down to a personal driving preference. If I never heard the ICE operation, during any driving situation, having series hybrid would not matter. The screaming ICE, during periods of extended high power needs with series hybrid operation detracts heavily from the peaceful drive offered with parallel hybrid operation in essentially the same conditions. The supplied battery gauge is adequate to monitor reserve energy supply, and toggling the SAVE button to allow for some battery usage in the city and local driving still suits my driving style.

 

[jaapv]

As for the "screaming" of the engine, perception is highly personal. To me it sounds no worse than the kickdown of a normal automatic and the word screaming is rather OTT. It may be my driving style, but that is actually the way it functions for me as well.

Of course, driving things like Triumphs, MGs, Morgans etc (presently a TR4 ). may have coloured my reference frame - in comparison to the mechanical music I am used to a bit of muttering from under a well-isolated bonnet is no big deal.

 

[gwatpe]

I suppose my point is "In the PHEV we have a choice". My choice is to avoid the screaming ICE under high power demands. To maintain a bit more in the battery to achieve this is not too difficult. Starting the PHEV in SAVE mode reduces the need to push the CHARGE button later on when I have forgotten to maintain the required level. I was able to record my drive up the freeway today and with a depleted battery, when the %SOC got to 22%, the PHEV dropped out of Parallel hybrid mode and into Series hybrid. The speed was just not quite enough to maintain Parallel hybrid. Series hybrid was able to supply just a bit more power and the battery charged up on the way to the top of the range. Have to get all the conditions a particular way to use a bit more battery and keep away from series hybrid, until reduced power comes along.

My testing by depleting the battery seems to be having a detrimental effect on the battery, as the health number is now 1Ah lower in just over 1 month.

I am not prepared to continue driving with the heavy battery cycling like most others seem to use. A long battery life is a big part of my strategy, and so far I am not convinced that cycling the battery heavily and always arriving with an empty battery is actually a good thing.

 

[anko]

..., when the %SOC got to 22%, the PHEV dropped out of Parallel hybrid mode and into Series hybrid. The speed was just not quite enough to maintain Parallel hybrid.

But higher SOC would not have made a difference then.

 

[gwatpe]

..., when the %SOC got to 22%, the PHEV dropped out of Parallel hybrid mode and into Series hybrid. The speed was just not quite enough to maintain Parallel hybrid.

But higher SOC would not have made a difference then.

I only presented what happened. The PHEV had worked out that the battery was very low in %SOC, and that the series hybrid power would be enough to supply the load demand, so dropped the PHEV out of parallel hybrid, to series hybrid to continue at the same speed.

If the power demand was a bit more than series hybrid could supply, then parallel hybrid may have continued until the turtle appeared for a bit and then power limiting and series hybrid may have been enabled at a new lower power level at reduced speed.

Higher starting %SOC would have enabled a longer period of higher power demands to be maintained by the parallel hybrid mode. Would have easily made it to the top of the range, starting at half the indicated battery gauge. There may be special circumstances with successive long steep hills that could still eventually deplete the battery, no matter what the starting %SOC.

I am still working on some pics of what the PHEV did.

 

[Fazer321]

HI,

Thank you for all of your replies.

I had a test drive on Friday afternoon and really enjoyed the near silent drive out of the centre of Derby, however, when entering a stretch of dual carriageway and accelerating relatively quickly, the increased noise of the engine, (sounds like it was "over-revving" like on an traditional auto in kick down mode), was very disappointing and the acceleration was not too impressive.

Also the test drive really wasn't long enough to justify a considered opinion - 15 minutes maximum !

The salesman didn't suggest a longer test drive or seemed too interested in gauging my opinion if the test drive was sufficient - As the car costs in excess of £30k, (although will be leased by my employer), I really want to make sure it will suit my needs.

Does anyone know if Mitsubishi offer an extended test drive ?

I am also considering other vehicles, (Skoda Superb / Vauxhall Insignia / Ford Mondeo), and they have all offered 2 to 3 Day tests.

Thanks again.

 

[gwatpe]

, however, when entering a stretch of dual carriageway and accelerating relatively quickly, the increased noise of the engine, (sounds like it was "over-revving" like on an traditional auto in kick down mode), was very disappointing and the acceleration was not too impressive.

This is a consequence of a heavy right foot. Best quiet acceleration at speed is with parallel hybrid operation.

Here is a plot of some logged data I mentioned in a post above.

The generator did manage to produce 74kW, and there was 12kW spare to put back into the battery.

In this example, the ICE was operating at 4100rpm at 90kph. Was maxed out at 100% load.

 

[user 816]

HI,

Thank you for all of your replies.

I had a test drive on Friday afternoon and really enjoyed the near silent drive out of the centre of Derby, however, when entering a stretch of dual carriageway and accelerating relatively quickly, the increased noise of the engine, (sounds like it was "over-revving" like on an traditional auto in kick down mode), was very disappointing and the acceleration was not too impressive.

Also the test drive really wasn't long enough to justify a considered opinion - 15 minutes maximum !

The salesman didn't suggest a longer test drive or seemed too interested in gauging my opinion if the test drive was sufficient - As the car costs in excess of £30k, (although will be leased by my employer), I really want to make sure it will suit my needs.

Does anyone know if Mitsubishi offer an extended test drive ?

I am also considering other vehicles, (Skoda Superb / Vauxhall Insignia / Ford Mondeo), and they have all offered 2 to 3 Day tests.

Thanks again.

Will your employers lease company not arrange extended tests for you?

Mine is a company car leased by my employer from Lex (although same has applied with other lease companies in the past) They will arrange for 2/3 day test for any 3 vehicles each time we renew the vehicle. Its usually arranged directly with the manufacturers fleet demo operation and the cars are delivered directly to us by a driver and collected at the end.

I have also successfully had the same by going on the manufacturers Facebook page and asking there.