'performance' non EV mode

[user 816]

There has been much ongoing discussion about getting the PHEV to run in EV only mode, my concern is the other way round, I have more problem getting it to use the ICE enough!

Even after 6000 miles I still get embarrassingly caught out by my cars occasional random laziness, I pull out at maybe 50 mph on a dual lane to overtake, floor it and it seems to take ages for the engine to start and rev, or its already running but doesn't seem to want to rev and give me full electrical power boost. After what seems ages we get moving at full speed, meanwhile I have been sat alongside the other person who is wondering what I am playing at.

Even pressing charge mode before going doesn't always help as it happens even if ICE already running, its just ~sometimes~ really slow to rev up, I am wondering if the 'kickdown' switch on the accelerator is working right. Other times it flies. Hmm.

 

[gwatpe]

Is it that we are suffering from "Hurry Sickness"

Instant gratification is not fast enough.

 

[Titan]

Well, conversely, today it nearly scared the brown biological out of me. Travelling off the A34 to Petersfield, single byway to dual-carriageway, I floored it because I was stuck behind a convoy of slow moving cake-eaters and had a Jag coupe on my tail, the PHEV took off like the proverbial scalded cat and I was doing (nearly ) illegal speeds before I knew it, with a roundabout fast approaching. Had to drive like a nun after that to bring my mpg back in line but well impressed

 

[user 816]

Well, conversely, today it nearly scared the brown biological out of me. Travelling off the A34 to Petersfield, single byway to dual-carriageway, I floored it because I was stuck behind a convoy of slow moving cake-eaters and had a Jag coupe on my tail, the PHEV took off like the proverbial scalded cat and I was doing (nearly ) illegal speeds before I knew it, with a roundabout fast approaching. Had to drive like a nun after that to bring my mpg back in line but well impressed

yes when it goes it goes too fast all too easily and cruises at speeds that make it hard to believe your doing so in a 2 ton with only 119bhp.

Off the mark too I have no problem, its just this middle dither zone I keep hitting. Need to work out why.

 

[anko]

Only 119 bhp? Get your facts straight!

 

[user 816]

Only 119 bhp? Get your facts straight!

Yes 119 bhp. When cruising at 80 mph using the engine to push the car.

The battery only comes into play temporarily to add power when acceleration is needed. Most the time the 119 bhp ICE is holding the car at 80 -110mph quite happily itself. (often even showing a little bit of charging too)

Is that straight enough facts for you?

 

[gwatpe]

I find the electronics take a bit of time to work out the power needs, and if you stomp on the gas very fast, at certain speeds, the PHEV makes poor decision on which mode to be in. I have eased up on the go pedal a bit and find that acceleration with the ICE in parallel mode and helped out with max battery seems to work best for me. If I had put the boot in harder and had the PHEV drop back into series hybrid mode with engine screaming, the time taken to perform these changes seemed to affect the performance. It may be that without the ICE screaming, the acceleration just seemed better. Hard to be objective when we are not trained racing drivers and we have few instruments to back up our feelings.

 

[greendwarf]

Its never failed me yet but then I've had little experience of automatics so difficult to compare. Nothing more embarrassing in a manual than pulling out to overtake to find you've forgotten to change down

 

[anko]

Only 119 bhp? Get your facts straight!

Yes 119 bhp. When cruising at 80 mph using the engine to push the car.

The battery only comes into play temporarily to add power when acceleration is needed. Most the time the 119 bhp ICE is holding the car at 80 -110mph quite happily itself. (often even showing a little bit of charging too)

Is that straight enough facts for you?

Hang on. Yesterday you said:

... when it goes it goes too fast all too easily and cruises at speeds that make it hard to believe your doing so in a 2 ton with only 119 bhp.

Today you only talk about cruising. Yes, cruising can be done with way less than 119bhp. Even at higher speeds. But I would not call go too fast all too easily "cruising".

 

[user 816]

Only 119 bhp? Get your facts straight!

Yes 119 bhp. When cruising at 80 mph using the engine to push the car.

The battery only comes into play temporarily to add power when acceleration is needed. Most the time the 119 bhp ICE is holding the car at 80 -110mph quite happily itself. (often even showing a little bit of charging too)

Is that straight enough facts for you?

Hang on. Yesterday you said:

... when it goes it goes too fast all too easily and cruises at speeds that make it hard to believe your doing so in a 2 ton with only 119 bhp.

Today you only talk about cruising. Yes, cruising can be done with way less than 119bhp. Even at higher speeds. But I would not call go too fast all too easily "cruising".

Some confusion between fast, acceleration, cruising perhaps.

90 mph is 'too fast' in the UK. I am saying that at 80mph the car very easily can get you to say 105 mph and cruise that speed as long as you like. Of course it will use the battery briefly to help get you there. But you can hold these speed very easily (too easily!) from the ICE without running the battery down. I just mean its impressive that a 119 bhp ICE that you might find in a small car can keep you at such speed in such a heavy vehicle with relatively poor aerodynamics. Personally I think the engine 119 bhp is maybe a little conservative, often Japanese manufacturers do this.

 

[user 816]

Its never failed me yet but then I've had little experience of automatics so difficult to compare. Nothing more embarrassing in a manual than pulling out to overtake to find you've forgotten to change down

although realising your mistake you can quickly change down and the result is instant. In a normal auto you can always manually make it change down with the gear lever or a paddle too.

In a PHEV if the 'pedal is to the metal' all you do is sit and wait for the software, nothing else you can do. I would happily swap my never used ECO button for a 'Turbo Boost' button.

 

[maby]

In a normal auto you can always manually make it change down with the gear lever or a paddle too.

.......

Not in a real auto! Only in these modern abominations of a servo operated manual gearbox masquerading as an auto!

 

[anko]

What defines a "real auto" then?

 

[maby]

No clutch for a start - the work of the devil!

 

[anko]

I have owned a Ford S-Max with an automatic gear box without a clutch but with paddles. Would that classify as a real auto?

 

[simonrh]

I was of the understanding that a true / traditional "automatic" gearbox has a torque converter between the engine and the driven wheels, uses epicyclic gears and brake bands to change gear

An "Automated manual" gearbox has conventional selection of gears but an automated clutch (or clutches). It is just a manual gearbox without a clutch pedal.

 

[anko]

I was of the understanding that a true / traditional "automatic" gearbox has a torque converter between the engine and the driven wheels, uses epicyclic gears and brake bands to change gear

An "Automated manual" gearbox has conventional selection of gears but an automated clutch (or clutches). It is just a manual gearbox without a clutch pedal.

Sure. But 'traditional' is something quite different than 'real'. And even then, why would there not be 'traditional' gear boxes that can be shifted up and down using paddles?

 

[maby]

I was of the understanding that a true / traditional "automatic" gearbox has a torque converter between the engine and the driven wheels, uses epicyclic gears and brake bands to change gear

An "Automated manual" gearbox has conventional selection of gears but an automated clutch (or clutches). It is just a manual gearbox without a clutch pedal.

Sure. But 'traditional' is something quite different than 'real'. And even then, why would there not be 'traditional' gear boxes that can be shifted up and down using paddles?

As far as I'm concerned, the primary advantage of a "real" automatic gearbox is reliability. Perhaps I'm just unlucky, but I have always found that manual gearboxes with clutches are very unreliable. Quite apart from the fact that in the clutch you have a friction lining that wears out and is very inaccessible, I find that the springs simply break leaving me with a friction plate that has thousands of miles of life left, but nothing to hold it to the flywheel. The same considerations apply to the gearbox - forcing gears into and out of mesh with each other. A "real" automatic gearbox has all the main components permanently in mesh and uses the brake bands to select which is active.

The last car we bought from new before the PHEV was a Landrover Discovery - we got through three gearboxes and one clutch in the first three years of its life.

 

[anko]

I don't think I would allow you to drive my wife's car, as it has a manual gearbox :mrgreen:

 

[user 816]

The old Citroen version (C-crosser) of Outlander has inherent clutch problems so inclined to agree, gradual oil leak from rubbish seals contaminates the plates causing slip at speed in higher gears. The unofficial cure tried and tested by many is surprisingly effective and involves sitting with the brakes on, putting into a high gear and revving hard then slipping in the clutch until a cloud of foul smoke fills the car. Fortunately this fix lasts years, cures it very effectively without too much lasting harm. I did nearly wet myself first time I had to do it though.