Just ordered a GX4H have a few questions

[Albacore]

Hi everyone

I currently drive a CRV but its starting to cost money so have decided to order a GX4H. I've been intrigued by the PHEV since one of our senior managers had one as a company car in April. I test drove recently and was very impressed that I could complete my 30 mile commute each way on 99% and 91% EV (hills on the way back!) - which would represent huge cost savings over my diesel CRV. Those results persuaded me to go ahead and order the PHEV.

My questions are:-

Plugging in: I can charge at work which is fine - but at home I don't expect to be able to install a proper charging unit as my house and the power supply is quite distant from where I can park. However I do have a garage fairly near the car with a power supply: currently in the form of a 13amp plug!. I managed to charge the company car via the lead by parking alongside the garage which would affect some neighbours, so my question is (for any of you with electrical knowledge) would it be theoretically possible to create for example a 15m extension off that power supply that could be lead outside with a waterproof casing to enable the charger to be plugged in? I understand its not recommended to plug an extension into the plug in order to connect the charger, is that correct? My other concern is that the wiring is old (1970's) and I don't have a modern consumer unit. I've never had issues with tripping out or anything, but would I need to get my wiring upgraded? There were no issues the other day when I plugged in.. just wondering whether its good enough for regular use.

Also: I tow a caravan - so have any of you plugged your PHEV into the caravan to charge when away? My van has an external 3 pin socket, so it looks theoretically possible, just wondering if there is any real world experience out there??!!

Towing: Can anyone give me some tips re towing strategy? I obviously do not expect to get anywhere near the mileage I experienced the other day - I'm working on the assumption that the petrol engine will be working full time. My initial concern was the bhp of the engine in towing 1500kgs (mine is max 1472kg I think) would it be enough? I'm happier that the car is heavier than the CRV and therefore a better match - but is there enough power to get it up the hills? I was wondering whether the strategy should be to keep enough battery power to enable the electric motors to assist? Anyone know what the combined equivalent power of petrol and electric motors would be?

So all in all I'm a very excited woman - can't wait for the PHEV and potential cost savings, but its fair to say I'm also a little apprehensive about the new technology! So any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance

 

[jkh112]

Welcome.
I can answer 2 of your questions.
Plugging in: It is not recommended but many PHEV owners use extension leads with the supplied charger. I have one with a waterproof socket on the end which I keep in the boot and use when out and about. The unit actually draws a max of 10amps so should be fine with your current wiring, I have used mine many times with 1970's wiring and no rcd unit.
Caravan: There is a video on youtube of a roadtest by a dedicated caravanner and he discusses towing and charges it from the caravan whilst it is on an electric hookup.

 

[Titan]

I've towed up from the south coast to Scotland and back without any problems. Just need to keep it on Charge mode, as the extra load can deplete the battery quite quickly. I have plugged in on campsites to recharge but you need to check the max current available. Some sites only run 10a, which is close to the draw of the PHEV, resulting in lots of breaker tripping, but all OK for me so far.

 

[jaapv]

As an alternative you could install a 16A charger unit on your house and run a long type 2 Mennekes cable to your car. I permanently have a 20 M. cable along my driveway and it works just fine.

 

[Albacore]

Thanks very much all, that's very helpful..I might be able to stop worrying now and get some sleep. All I need to do now is wait and see whether I can get the Phev before next Friday....supposed to be taking the caravan to France on 30th and would dearly love to take the automatic Phev over my manual CRV. My left knee would certainly be grateful....its all pretty tight though and bit of a nail-biting deadline! ;-)

Anyone know roughly what sort of mpg to expect when towing? Presumably with the small tank I could be filling up a couple of times...

Cheers!

 

[Titan]

Anyone know roughly what sort of mpg to expect when towing? Presumably with the small tank I could be filling up a couple of times...

Cheers!

MPG is not good when towing a 1500kg caravan, as you need Charge on all the time. Scotland and back for me (900miles) saw 29mpg average but there were some big hills and lots of motorway, which, if you try and pull the load at 60mph, quickly hammers it. Keeping it at 50 helps improve things a lot and if you watch the power meter, can help the battery stay topped up, which obviously helps as well.

 

[MartinH]

About the bhp, you have 121hp from the petrol Engine, and 2x 60kw electrical, 60kw electrical is 81,6hp, so in total with fully charged batteries and engaged petrol Engine 121 + 81,6 + 81,6 = 284,2 hp.
This is theoretical values, but as you see you have alot of Power when needed.
The Power is one thing, but the best feeling you get when you travel back and forward to work without burnig any fosile fuel.(live in Sweden charge with hydro and nuclear)

 

[jaapv]

That would be nice, but as the battery is rated 60 kW output and the ICE cannot supply the additional 60 kW needed by the electric motors to the generator to supplement, when it is diverting its full output to the wheels, the maximum output will be considerably less than your calculation.
The total power the car can supply to the drive train is 60 kW from the battery and 89 kW from the ICE is 149 kW total. Making 203 Hp.

Still, it is lively enough but will show a hesitation when the pedal is depressed, due to the startup time of the ICE.
The workaround is to press the Charge button to pre-start the ICE when you anticipate needing full acceleration, for instance when hovering behind a truck for the right moment to overtake.

 

[anko]

The 203 bhp is only available at top speed (170 kph) as it requires max rpm from the engine. Taking that into account, the best you can get at towing speed is 2 x 80 bhp = 160 bhp in serial mode. And IMHO / from my own experience, that is more than sufficient even when towing a 1500 kg caravan uphill. As these 160 bhps trend to be very alive

Note: from 56 kph down to 0 kph, these 160 bhp linearly fade away, as having 160 bhp at speeds less than 56 kph would require exceeding max torque of the E-motors.

Indeed the challenge is to keep your battery charged as much as possible. Running Charge mode all the time is "an absolute must". But even that may not be enough. I had a theory about the best way of maintaining high SOC and last three weeks I was able to confirm this theory. The advice is very simple:

Stay in B0 as much as possible. Consequently, do not use CC as this implies B2 or more.

Why? When you start coasting in B0 (on the flat or a not to steep down hill section), the engine will keep running at high load, recharging the battery at a high rate. As soon as you hit the break pedal or regen braking is activated (regen breaking is also activated when you cancel CC), the engine starts idling (in terms of load, not RPM) and stops recharging the battery. Even in Charge mode.

As a matter of fact, some energy is actually drained from the battery and sent to the E-motors and even to the generator (which happens to spin along in parallel mode) to prevent the often discussed drag. The display on your dashboard may show a neutral energy flow, but this is not true. You are loosing SOC (I have seen values as high as 6 kW) while coasting even though the engine was running and burning fuel!

If you have / had to use the (regen) brakes during / before coasting, you can select B0 and briefly hit the accelerator to restart the charging process when you are done braking.

MPG is not good when towing a 1500kg caravan, as you need Charge on all the time.

Not good compared to what? PHEV solo or another gasoline powered car towing a caravan? Compared to another gasoline car towing, I think the PHEV doesn't do a bad job at all. About running Charge all the time: doesn't any other cat have its engine running all the time?

I drove from the Netherlands to Croatia back and forth towing my 1500 kg caravan. As I did some solo driving on my overnight stops, I have only five complete measurements for fuel consumption while towing:

On the way down, I did 11,84 l / 100 km on one tank and 10.97 l / 100 km on the next. This was Germany and first half of Austria. Speed around 95 kph. Quite happy with that.

On the way back, I did 12.55 l / 100 km on one tank, 13.57 on the next and 14.91 on the last full tank. These numbers are a bit ugly. But I was somewhat in a hurry to get home, so my speed was between 100 and 110 kph most of the time and there was a strong head wind. The last tank was partially spent crossing the "Ruhrgebiet" in very, very heavy stop and go traffic.

 

[Titan]

MPG is not good when towing a 1500kg caravan, as you need Charge on all the time.

Not good compared to what? PHEV solo or another gasoline powered car towing a caravan? Compared to another gasoline car towing, I think the PHEV doesn't do a bad job at all.

Compared to the PHEV when not towing I just dislike seeing such a low figure when I usually do do much better (when not towing) and hate my average taking a hit. Granted though, overall, the PHEV is very good.

You're also right about using B0 when towing. I use the coast method to top up as much as possible, even making use of the display to ensure I'm recharging when I lift off (and sometimes needing a little dab on the accelerator to initiate).

 

[jaapv]

The 203 bhp is only available at top speed (170 kph) as it requires max rpm from the engine. Taking that into account, the best you can get at towing speed is 2 x 80 bhp = 160 bhp in serial mode. And IMHO / from my own experience, that is more than sufficient even when towing a 1500 kg caravan uphill. As these 160 bhps trend to be very alive

Note: from 56 kph down to 0 kph, these 160 bhp linearly fade away, as having 160 bhp at speeds less than 56 kph would require exceeding max torque of the E-motors.

Max RPM or optimum RPM, Anko? Most combustion engines will deliver maximum power a few hundred revs below maximum, I would guess maximum power is deployed somewhere around 160. (which one would not tow a caravan at either.. Although: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAH4AIQIwO4 )

 

[Albacore]

Brilliant, thanks everyone once again. I'm really excited about it now because by the sounds of it it is a good choice all round. BHP sounds ok to, especially since the other car I was considering was the new CRV at 158 BHP but a 1.6 diesel. Towing mpg is also perfectly acceptable...I towed to Pembrokeshire earlier this summer and only achieved 26 mpg.... a little more on the way back as I employed the strategy of CC at 2000rpm in 5th which equated to around 56mph, and meant I could tackle all the hills without cancelling the cruise.

I really hope I can get my hands on it before I go to France on 30th....will be disappointed if I have to take the crv.

Cheers everyone, think I may be a frequent visitor here :-D

 

[anko]

I just dislike seeing such a low figure when I usually do do much better (when not towing) and hate my average taking a hit.

Now, that I do recognize :lol:

 

[anko]

Max RPM or optimum RPM, Anko? Most combustion engines will deliver maximum power a few hundred revs below maximum, I would guess maximum power is deployed somewhere around 160.

Agreed wrt the first bit. But looking at the torque curve of the PHEV, max torque is at 170, which is the cars top speed. So max power must IMHO also be at top speed.

I think you are talking about max RPM of the engine as such, where I was talking about max RPM of the engine when installed in this particular car ...

We are drifting, aren't we?