Is this the battery cell in the Phev?

[Trex]

Hi,

thegurio requested to show a battery cell (there are 80 of them) in the Phev's high voltage case to be placed in the sticky discussion.

Do you think this is it?



As seen on page 1 of sticky seen here

Phev high voltage battery opened,



Again if my translation is correct 12 kwh 40 amp/hour and 184kg weight.

and here

One of the 10 modules with 8x1 cell batteries



Now it says from anko's pdf that the battery in the Phev is 40Ah as seen in the 2nd photo and the battery shown on top is 50Ah but I think this is because Mitsubishi derate the battery for longevity.This is the only one on GS Yuasa Corp website that comes close to the specs quoted by Mitsubishi and is same colour as seen in 3rd photo.

Thoughts anyone? I have already put it the sticky but I want to make sure that I am on the right track.

Regards Trex.

 

[Kim]

That would mean, that we only use 66% of the batterie's capacity?
Sounds like a lot of dead weight and hard to believe.

I bet, they produce a 40Ah OEM for Mitsubishi....

 

[Grigou]

Why 66 % ?

If we count 4/5 * 70 % it makes 56 %, and if we count 4/5 * 74 % it makes 59 % ...

You count 4/5 * 82,5 %, maybe you're right, but for what reason ?

 

[Kim]

50Ah at 300V nominal voltage would be 15 kWh

10 kWh usable out of 15 kWh on board would mean 66%

 

[Trex]

That would mean, that we only use 66% of the batterie's capacity?
Sounds like a lot of dead weight and hard to believe.

I bet, they produce a 40Ah OEM for Mitsubishi....

Hi Kim,





There is nearly 30% dead weight showing up in the bottom of this graph only to be used in "emergencies" or a last resort.

Regards Trex.

Graph from anko

 

[Kim]

There is nearly 30% dead weight showing up in bottom of this graph...

I know, that's why I don't believe in additional 3.0 kWh "sub zero" of this graph.

 

[maby]

They are presumably targeting a life expectancy approaching 10 years - how long does your phone battery last? They start with significant unused capacity so that the battery can degrade significantly without the car going out of spec.

 

[Grigou]

There is nearly 30% dead weight showing up in bottom of this graph...

I know, that's why I don't believe in additional 3.0 kWh "sub zero" of this graph.

O dear, why don't you believe it ?
These are graphs from Mitsubishi ! :shock:

 

[Kim]

O dear, why don't you believe it ?
These are graphs from Mitsubishi ! :shock:

I believe in 40 (what Mitsu claims) and not in 50.
The graphs are for the 40s,
I belive in them.

I don't think there are 3kWh "hidden" below zero.

 

[anko]

I don't think there are 3kWh "hidden" below zero.

As in "the pack is physically 12 kW, not 15 kW". I agree.

 

[Grigou]

Ha OK, I misunderstood. So I agree too

(BTW I always agree with anko :lol: )

 

[anko]

(BTW I always agree with anko :lol: )

You say you do. I say you don't. Now what? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Trex]

Ok I need some evidence for being the case of the them derating a 50a/h battery to 40a/h battery. See here:



This is for their 30a/h lithium cell (they make 30 & 50A/h cells according to website). I cannot find 50ah discharge curves but notice for the 30ah cell the capacity is worked out down to 2.75v.

Now from anko's pdf and as stated in sticky:

For those so inclined it says underneath this image.
Max voltage per cell =4.1 volts x 80 cells = 328 volts
Min voltage per cell =3.55 volts x 80 cells = 284 volts

Notice min volts is 3.55 so a lot of capacity not used if not going down to 2.75v as shown above.



Now here notice the weight of the one cell in this image being 1.7kg. Now 80 cells x 1.7kgs equals 136kgs. From the bottom of the 2nd image in this discussion it shows the hv battery and case weigh 184kgs so we have 48kgs to make a case and put in electronics and blower. That is very doable in my opinion.

Regards Trex.

Material from anko and GS Yuasa Corporation.

 

[gwatpe]

For a comparison, Winston batteries of 60Ah weigh 2.3kg per cell. The batteries in my PHEV are unfortunately not directly compatible with my OFFgrid systems.

I suspect that any replacement batteries we may need will be of the same capacity. NB the PRIUS changed the battery capacity by number of cells between different revisions and replacement of older batteries required rebuilds of the original pack type.

 

[Grigou]

(BTW I always agree with anko :lol: )

You say you do. I say you don't. Now what? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hehe, finally you're right and I don't

I think that if there is hidden 20 %, it is not below 0 % of the graph but above 100 %.
And finally I think that this hidden 20 % is a plausible hypothesis, even if it is only an hypothesis...