Fast charge complete shutdown

[rubes]

Hi all,

New member here -had my gx4h for 2weeks now and love it, but have today had a serious issue with service station charging....I've charged successfully at Reading and Membury on the M4 but today tried Cherwell Valley on M40 near Bicester and although it charged ok, the car flashed up warning "Ev system requires service", meaning the car would not engage drive or reverse. Nothing would get me out of this mode. The manual says it needed checking by dealer.....long story short, I got recovered on the back of a recovery truck, missed an important meeting and wasted the day. According to the recovery guy this wad the second phev recovery he'd had at this service station in a week. Dealer also said that the ecotricity guys use PHEVs as test cars and have had numerous issues...and is caused by spikes in the charge voltage going over safe thresholds.

Dealer also helpfully added that it might not be under warranty if any damage is caused by charger...but said it is likely a full system re-boot would be enough to get it up and running again. Cue much mirth from the office about my dodgy milkfloat (it's white!)
Cheers

Anyway, first post but thought it needed to be mentioned.

 

[jaapv]

A new one - but then only very few owners have been fast-charging before the car came to the UK, as frequent fast charging can damage the battery (as per the manual) and is too expensive in most other countries anyway. It sounds like a cutout was activated to protect the battery/charging circuits or because of overheating.

 

[gwatpe]

I had the EV service message display, caused by a separate fault, but just cycling the power button cleared the fault. Messages reappeared when driving, but the car could still be driven slowly. Looks like some new bugs have been introduced to keep the service techs busy.

 

[CJ1045]

A new one - but then only very few owners have been fast-charging before the car came to the UK, as frequent fast charging can damage the battery (as per the manual) and is too expensive in most other countries anyway. It sounds like a cutout was activated to protect the battery/charging circuits or because of overheating.

Not true. The manual simply states that fast charging should not be used exclusively. It states you should slow charge every couple of weeks too.

CJ

 

[maby]

I've never bothered with fast chargers (as in ChaDeMo) - the EV range they can give you is just too small to justify the inconvenience of stopping or any possible impact on battery life. The situation could be different for a Tesla owner - half an hour on a fast charger can give you more than a hundred miles EV range.

 

[jaapv]

A new one - but then only very few owners have been fast-charging before the car came to the UK, as frequent fast charging can damage the battery (as per the manual) and is too expensive in most other countries anyway. It sounds like a cutout was activated to protect the battery/charging circuits or because of overheating.

Not true. The manual simply states that fast charging should not be used exclusively. It states you should slow charge every couple of weeks too.

CJ

Incorrect. Page 3-05 of the (Dutch) manual.

Herhaaldelijk opladen met alleen de snellader kan de accucapaciteit doen afnemen. Normaal opladen is de aanbevolen standaard- methode.

Translated:

Repeated charging using only the fast charger can reduce battery capacity. Normal charging is the recommended standard procedure.

 

[rubes]

Thanks all for thoughts and comments. I will update a post later today with Dealer findings so hopefully we're more informed about the risks of fast ChadEmo stations. I'm going email Ecotricity too for their thoughts.

I'm not overly worried about battery damage as I've only fast charged 3 or 4 times when stopping for a coffee so it's not an inconvenience and I had 20 mins to kill yesterday. I actually like the fact that people come up and chat about EV's. One guy was considering an I8 (dismissed him as a fantasist until I saw him in a brand new V8 Jag F-type), and while I was in limbo yesterday, a green P85 tesla pulled up and he reckoned an hour's charge would get him 150 steady miles, although he said he's not steady! How come they can fast charge ok, and we can't?

Fingers crossed that Dealer news is good but I'm unlikely to fast charge anywhere new again.

 

[rubes]

Happy to report that the car has had a re-boot and thorough check over - all systems operating normally. Phew!

Waiting for reply from Ecotricity so if I get anything useful back from them will report it so we can all be better informed.

 

[maby]

Thanks all for thoughts and comments. I will update a post later today with Dealer findings so hopefully we're more informed about the risks of fast ChadEmo stations. I'm going email Ecotricity too for their thoughts.

...

while I was in limbo yesterday, a green P85 tesla pulled up and he reckoned an hour's charge would get him 150 steady miles, although he said he's not steady! How come they can fast charge ok, and we can't?

Fingers crossed that Dealer news is good but I'm unlikely to fast charge anywhere new again.

I think it's more a case of Tesla owners not having much choice in the matter - they don't have a petrol lump under the bonnet to take over when the battery goes flat. Tesla are facing a few law suits from disgruntled owners who are finding that their total range is dropping with age more than they had anticipated. I tend to take the view that a fast charge simply does not give me enough to justify taking any risks with my battery - I generally get between 20 and 25 miles out of a 100% charge and the fast charge only takes us up to about 80% - so less than 20 miles. Add to that the fact that most ChaDeMo chargers are on motorways - at motorway speeds the range on 80% charge will be further reduced - 15 miles? So, if I'm lucky it will save me £2 in petrol - is that worth the delay and any possible risk to battery life? Not for me, it isn't!

 

[user 816]

Thanks all for thoughts and comments. I will update a post later today with Dealer findings so hopefully we're more informed about the risks of fast ChadEmo stations. I'm going email Ecotricity too for their thoughts.

...

while I was in limbo yesterday, a green P85 tesla pulled up and he reckoned an hour's charge would get him 150 steady miles, although he said he's not steady! How come they can fast charge ok, and we can't?

Fingers crossed that Dealer news is good but I'm unlikely to fast charge anywhere new again.

I think it's more a case of Tesla owners not having much choice in the matter - they don't have a petrol lump under the bonnet to take over when the battery goes flat. Tesla are facing a few law suits from disgruntled owners who are finding that their total range is dropping with age more than they had anticipated. I tend to take the view that a fast charge simply does not give me enough to justify taking any risks with my battery - I generally get between 20 and 25 miles out of a 100% charge and the fast charge only takes us up to about 80% - so less than 20 miles. Add to that the fact that most ChaDeMo chargers are on motorways - at motorway speeds the range on 80% charge will be further reduced - 15 miles? So, if I'm lucky it will save me £2 in petrol - is that worth the delay and any possible risk to battery life? Not for me, it isn't!

absolutely agree with all above. If it got me say a genuine 50 miles at 60 - 70mph I would use at times but the current capability of the PHEV I am happy to use the 3 modes, short mostly EV journeys charged at home, long journeys driving with some restraint and medium journeys where average MPG is boosted by some EV miles charged at home.

 

[milkfloat]

Just had the same problem as Rubes.

Have had my phev for 7 weeks. Love it - and have probably used fast chargers about 15 times over that period with no problems.
Then yesterday at South Mimms services M25 - stopped and did a quick charge (Ecotricity). Came back to find it complete, and uncoupled as normal to find the phev would not go to "ready" state on startup.
Instead flashed up "EV System Service Required" and was stuck in park (no way to get into neutral/drive/reverse).
So recovery truck had to tow away !
My phev is now at the dealer - hopefully a reboot/reset will fix this like it did in your case.
This has put me off using a fast charger in future - I think I'll stick to using my home charger only.

I'll update when my car is fixed and they've confirmed the fault.

 

[kentphev]

I've never bothered with fast chargers (as in ChaDeMo) - the EV range they can give you is just too small to justify the inconvenience of stopping or any possible impact on battery life. The situation could be different for a Tesla owner - half an hour on a fast charger can give you more than a hundred miles EV range.

The few time I've used them I found that the ecotricity chargers are always closer to the services than most empty spaces and by the time I'd been to the loo and Costa the car was charged. Of course, still only gets you 20 miles (max) at motorway speeds so might be I dont bother all the time.

The secret to your batteries is temperature management. When Tesla first came to the UK with the Roadster I talked to one of their guys at the Motorshow because the idea of using delicate Li-Ion batteries in a car was scary... afterall who gets much more than 18-24 months out of a laptop battery before it starts to give up?

Tesla superchargers deliver up to 120kW which must seriously cook the batteries if you're not careful. I see they are also building battery swap stations and so presumably owners will move to a battery lease scheme rather than own outright.

I do wonder if MMC will eventually sell uprated batteries for existing phevs as the technology gets better. In 5yrs from now you should expect at least double the range from the same size batteries. Or will they leave us high and dry needing to "upgrade" to a total new car.

Im hoping that if the latter, there may be alternate suppliers who could replace your batteries with higher powered modules.

soz, went a bit orthogonal there!

 

[rubes]

Milkfloat,

Sorry to hear you had the same problem as me. Hopefully you will get the same result though; no damage to the system and all is needed is a reset. My dealer (Swindon) agreed to look at the issue but when I collected the car they presented me with a bill for £60 for the 45mins work. Wasn't too happy with this as they could have done it as a goodwill gesture, so I told them to sort it out directly with the lease company as it's fully maintained. It will be interesting to see how your dealer deals with it.

I also get the milkfloat jokes at work, especially as mine is white. Their laughs soon stop when I tell them how much tax I save compared to their 3 series beemers!!

 

[maby]

Milkfloat,

Sorry to hear you had the same problem as me. Hopefully you will get the same result though; no damage to the system and all is needed is a reset. My dealer (Swindon) agreed to look at the issue but when I collected the car they presented me with a bill for £60 for the 45mins work. Wasn't too happy with this as they could have done it as a goodwill gesture, so I told them to sort it out directly with the lease company as it's fully maintained. It will be interesting to see how your dealer deals with it.

I also get the milkfloat jokes at work, especially as mine is white. Their laughs soon stop when I tell them how much tax I save compared to their 3 series beemers!!

How on earth could they consider billing you? The car has got to be well within warranty still, surely? Or are they officially saying "Don't use rapid charging - if you do and a problem arises, then it is out of warranty"? If that is the case, then it needs to be clearly stated - preferably in a letter circulated to all owners!

 

[rubes]

I was a bit gobsmacked when he handed over the invoice -I told him i wasn't paying it! Essentially they are saying any issues caused by fast chargers are definitely not covered by warranty as it's 3rd party hardware... the guy from the dealer who gave me a lift home revealed that they know of issues with ecotricity chargers but don't tell the public. I emailed ecotricity who said they checked the offending unit and it was fully operational. I was the second phev stuck there in a week though. Seems like a conflict between car and charger that they know about (ecotricity use phevs as test cars because they are most likely to fail - one particular has been back to mitsu swindon 4 times!) but isn't being made public. To me that is slightly deceptive. I only used another fast charge (hopwood on M4) because another phev was there before so i knew it was ok. Proceed with caution guys!

 

[milkfloat]

I now have my PHEV back after Mitsubishi spending 2 days on checks. In the end they confirmed that this breakdown was caused by the Ecotricity charger not functioning properly and spike in electricity caused my car to shutdown.
My dealer said they spoke to Mitsubishi and they confirmed that here have been a number of similar cases.
I've decided to cut up my Ecotricity card- not taking the risk now. I'll just continue to use my home charger only.
Even though it is free electricity, 20 miles of free miles is not worth the risk for me.

As for costs- at no point was I told of any payment. Also it's worth saying that if you check the Mitsubishi phev website they quote suitable fast chargers to use and Ecotricity is on the list- so they endorse the use. So this third party argument doesn't wash. Mitsubishi and Ecotricity need to work together to ensure they are 100% compatible.
I think by the time that happens Ecotricity will not be free anymore and so I'll be unlikely to use with any future phev.

 

[Titan]

I now have my PHEV back after Mitsubishi spending 2 days on checks. In the end they confirmed that this breakdown was caused by the Ecotricity charger not functioning properly and spike in electricity caused my car to shutdown.

Noting previous correspondence, is this info being passed on to Ecotricity?

 

[milkfloat]

I was advised that Mitsubishi have brought this to Ecotricity attention.
I wonder whether this is a situation where Mitsu blame ecotricity and Ecotricity would blame Mitsu. Could it just be that they are not very compatible and they need to work it out together?

 

[kentphev]

Happy to report that the car has had a re-boot and thorough check over - all systems operating normally. Phew!

Waiting for reply from Ecotricity so if I get anything useful back from them will report it so we can all be better informed.

I know someone who had the same problem last week and his dealer said problem caused by ecotricity fast charger!
I've used M4 Reading and Leigh Delamere without problem

..but sounds like Russian Roulette, don't think Ill be risking it any more

 

[Aitch]

Currently have the same issue as the original poster, was recovered from Cambridge Services last night following an Ecotricity fast charge attempt (have used this charger several times). A bit if research suggests that plugging into the 13A charger may help to reset the system, failing that I'm looking for a fix on bank holiday Monday. My joy knows no bounds...