EV Battery report from Mitsubishi.

[Trex]

Ok last year I got Mitsubishi service department to print off a battery diagnostic report from their MUTT III. All very good and no problem for them to do it. Done while the PHEV was getting its yearly service.

Now most of the stuff was exactly the same as seen on EV Batmon app from anko's decoding, there were some I have not seen on the app. Some were about rapid charging which we do not have on the Australian models and I remember one with the weirdest name I had seen for awhile.

Anyway I do not have report with me here at the moment (its at work and I am at home) but I will dig it up and get back to you.

I would suggest everyone gets this report when they get their PHEV serviced.

Regards Trex.

 

[maby]

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I would suggest everyone gets this report when they get their PHEV serviced.

.....

I did inquire the last time ours was serviced, but the dealer wanted to charge quite a lot for it.

 

[anko]

That is close to criminal ...

 

[zzcoopej]

.....

I would suggest everyone gets this report when they get their PHEV serviced.

.....

I did inquire the last time ours was serviced, but the dealer wanted to charge quite a lot for it.

I asked for the battery report when I got the 15K PHEV service. They let me look at it but wouldn't let me take it home! I have an iMiEV report from a different dealership so it depends on who you ask.

I'm suspicious that Mitsu don't want people having a record of their battery condition as it might help with an excessive battery degradation claim?

 

[greendwarf]

My dealer claimed they couldn't print out any results :roll:

 

[Trex]

.....

I would suggest everyone gets this report when they get their PHEV serviced.

.....

I did inquire the last time ours was serviced, but the dealer wanted to charge quite a lot for it.

How much is quite a lot? :?

 

[Trex]

Anyhow good to see some of you well known people here.

How are you maby?

How are you anko?

zzcoopej how is the app and yourself going?

And last but not least Mr greendwarf Sir. How are you?

I do not know what to say about your problems getting the report off Mitsi. I had no trouble. :? Maybe go higher up the chain of command?

Anyhow have the report in front of me now.

Most of it is on Ev batmon I think.

Stuff it I will write them all down:

Internal resistance max and min[Both 1.5 mohm], battery current capacity[33.9Ah], batt remaining cap[30.9Ah], batt max input power[21.75kW], batt max output power[63.5kW], batt total voltage[325.4 V],module max temp[28 C], max temp module ID[3], module min temp[27 C], min temp module ID[0], leak detection flag [off], charge state(control)[91.0%] charge state(display)[92%], batt cell max voltage[4.069 V], max voltage cell ID[5], batt cell min voltage[4.066 V], min voltage cell ID [55], Quick charge integrated current[0 Ah*1000], stop time backup[21 month], charge and discharge intergrated current[30336 Ah], batt capacity secular deterioration[10.47%], batt capacity cycle deterioration[7.35%], cell current capacity(measured)[0.0 Ah].

I think that is it will double check and edit later if I have missed something.

Now as I have said I think most are on the app. Secular is a word as used in this category that makes no sense. Something might have got lost in translation. They may be all on the app and I may have missed them. Though I am buggered if I can see quick charge current on the app. It makes sense Mitsi are keeping an eye on how much rapid charging is going on.

Gotta go.

Regards Trex.

 

[zzcoopej]

zzcoopej how is the app and yourself going?

I'm doing well Trex, hope you are too?
The EvBatMon App (all 4 variants) has sold 474 units in its first year which is about 1/2 what I'd hoped for. We've had some difficulties supporting EV brands not available in Australia, and also merging iOS and Android versions. Should have some progress to show in a couple of months.

batt capacity secular deterioration, batt capacity cycle deterioration

These are interesting, they seem to be splitting time/cycle based vs distance based deterioration maybe?

 

[fatnat]

.....

I would suggest everyone gets this report when they get their PHEV serviced.

.....

I did inquire the last time mine was serviced, but the dealer wanted to charge quite a lot for it.

From my previous post regarding axle/hub fix and battery report I got everything done ok except the battery report, I requested this before the phev was booked in, during its fix (ie off road for 6 weeks) and on collection all I got back was a verbal "battery within its normal range"?? I then requested the report again at and a week later by email, answer to my email was

"Hi,
Mitsubishi technical have asked me to ask you, what specific information are you after, regarding your battery?
If you could please let me know & I will work to get this information back to you."

I wrote back:

"I simply am requesting a battery status reading on each cell within the main battery pack, if a test was done what was the test results/readings/status at full charge and subsequently at fully discharged levels for each cell.
Next time we can do this again at end of warranty time to assess if the battery capacity level is still within 80% range.
An explanation from Mitsi of why the battery capacity is within range based on the readings would be appreciated as well.
Sorry to be pedantic on this I simply recall a bad experience with my Prius where I had to replace the battery soon after the warranty ceased, It simply died."


So no reply since 23 December?

Will resend inquiry today.

 

[anko]

My dealer claimed they couldn't print out any results :roll:

Perhaps they should buy a printer than, as mine could. IIRC, it took them less than 5 minutes.

A little hand held device that will give you all this info is an iCarsoft i909. cost me about 100 euro, a few years ago. But, most of it is also available true EVBatMon.

Keep in mind, quite a few of the items Trex mentioned are 'real time parameters' that change by the (split) second, not revealing much about the battery health. I would think most important is Battery Current Capacity, as that is a / the indicator telling you how much energy your battery will store (including buffer, if I am not mistaken). This number has gone done from 38.4 to 30.5 over 3 years and a bit, in my case.

 

[Trex]

zzcoopej how is the app and yourself going?

I'm doing well Trex, hope you are too?
The EvBatMon App (all 4 variants) has sold 474 units in its first year which is about 1/2 what I'd hoped for. We've had some difficulties supporting EV brands not available in Australia, and also merging iOS and Android versions. Should have some progress to show in a couple of months.

batt capacity secular deterioration, batt capacity cycle deterioration

These are interesting, they seem to be splitting time/cycle based vs distance based deterioration maybe?

Going good thank you. Hope the app starts selling better as you have put a fair bit of effort into it.

Ok put values into the data above. The secular deterioration value is the same (or close to) as your battery condition PMC gauge but in reverse.ie you show 90% battery condition they show 10% battery deterioration. Yes the cycle deterioration may have time or the amount of times it has been charged applied. Surely they mean cellular and not secular. :? :lol:

Notice the Quick charge integrated current showing zero (no quick charging port on our Phevs?) and the cell current capacity(measured) also showing zero because I think it means they can do more tests.

 

[Trex]

My dealer claimed they couldn't print out any results :roll:

Perhaps they should buy a printer than, as mine could. IIRC, it took them less than 5 minutes.

A little hand held device that will give you all this info is an iCarsoft i909. cost me about 100 euro, a few years ago. But, most of it is also available true EVBatMon.

Keep in mind, quite a few of the items Trex mentioned are 'real time parameters' that change by the (split) second, not revealing much about the battery health. I would think most important is Battery Current Capacity, as that is a / the indicator telling you how much energy your battery will store (including buffer, if I am not mistaken). This number has gone done from 38.4 to 30.5 over 3 years and a bit, in my case.

Yes and mine was at 33.9 Ah but this report is over 9 months old. Have not checked lately. Cannot get near the PHEV lately. :roll:

 

[Trex]

.....

I would suggest everyone gets this report when they get their PHEV serviced.

.....

I did inquire the last time mine was serviced, but the dealer wanted to charge quite a lot for it.

From my previous post regarding axle/hub fix and battery report I got everything done ok except the battery report, I requested this before the phev was booked in, during its fix (ie off road for 6 weeks) and on collection all I got back was a verbal "battery within its normal range"?? I then requested the report again at and a week later by email, answer to my email was

"Hi,
Mitsubishi technical have asked me to ask you, what specific information are you after, regarding your battery?
If you could please let me know & I will work to get this information back to you."

I wrote back:

"I simply am requesting a battery status reading on each cell within the main battery pack, if a test was done what was the test results/readings/status at full charge and subsequently at fully discharged levels for each cell.
Next time we can do this again at end of warranty time to assess if the battery capacity level is still within 80% range.
An explanation from Mitsi of why the battery capacity is within range based on the readings would be appreciated as well.
Sorry to be pedantic on this I simply recall a bad experience with my Prius where I had to replace the battery soon after the warranty ceased, It simply died."


So no reply since 23 December?

Will resend inquiry today.

Hope you get a reply. We must remember that dealers are privately owned and are not Mitsubishi Motors Corp which is why we get different results from different dealers.
Owned a Prius (traded on the PHEV) ourselves and never heard of many battery problems. There were some taxi drivers in Cairns Australia that had some high time, high mileage Prius (far older than our Prius) that were still going strong on their first battery.

Regards Trex.

 

[elm70]

My dealer claimed they couldn't print out any results :roll:

Perhaps they should buy a printer than, as mine could. IIRC, it took them less than 5 minutes.

A little hand held device that will give you all this info is an iCarsoft i909. cost me about 100 euro, a few years ago. But, most of it is also available true EVBatMon.

Keep in mind, quite a few of the items Trex mentioned are 'real time parameters' that change by the (split) second, not revealing much about the battery health. I would think most important is Battery Current Capacity, as that is a / the indicator telling you how much energy your battery will store (including buffer, if I am not mistaken). This number has gone done from 38.4 to 30.5 over 3 years and a bit, in my case.

It looks like that you are already below 80% of the original capacity ... this means you can ask for battery replacement ?

What is the warranty condition? 8y and 300k km ?

I should get soon a proper OBD2 Bluetooth adapter, and I hope to see these data inside the EVBatMon

I don't expect to have in my PHEV better battery capacity then yours ... so ... I'm looking if and how eventually warranty could be made to kick in

 

[greendwarf]

Anyhow good to see some of you well known people here.

And last but not least Mr greendwarf Sir. How are you?

I do not know what to say about your problems getting the report off Mitsi. I had no trouble. :? Maybe go higher up the chain of command?

Happy New Year, Trex - missing the Aussie sunshine, at this time of year in the UK, and jealous of my granddaughter, currently in Perth Regarding the lack of printout from my dealer is down to the poor customer service from them generally in London - and little choice. :roll:

 

[anko]

It looks like that you are already below 80% of the original capacity ... this means you can ask for battery replacement ?

Yes, I am. But, as I have written several times on this forum: a lot of people assume there is a warranty regarding remaining capacity, but nobody has produced any evidence of such warranty.

All I have seen is that Mitsubishi states that degradation is expected to be below 80%. But that is not the same as warranting it ...

 

[elm70]

Yes, I am. But, as I have written several times on this forum: a lot of people assume there is a warranty regarding remaining capacity, but nobody has produced any evidence of such warranty.

All I have seen is that Mitsubishi states that degradation is expected to be below 80%. But that is not the same as warranting it ...

Right ... you did mention before .. but it is hard to accept or understand fully

Are you saying that there is no warranties on the battery ?

Or ... only if the car will not work at all, so total dead battery .. then we have 8y warranties on it ?

 

[maby]

.....

I would suggest everyone gets this report when they get their PHEV serviced.

.....

I did inquire the last time ours was serviced, but the dealer wanted to charge quite a lot for it.

How much is quite a lot? :?

About £50 if I remember correctly. Certainly enough to make me decide I didn't really need to see it....

 

[anko]

Yes, I am. But, as I have written several times on this forum: a lot of people assume there is a warranty regarding remaining capacity, but nobody has produced any evidence of such warranty.

All I have seen is that Mitsubishi states that degradation is expected to be below 80%. But that is not the same as warranting it ...

Right ... you did mention before .. but it is hard to accept or understand fully

Are you saying that there is no warranties on the battery ?

Or ... only if the car will not work at all, so total dead battery .. then we have 8y warranties on it ?

Failure is treated different than deterioration, I guess. Doesn't have to be totally dead, one or two failing cells should also work.

 

[elm70]

Failure is treated different than deterioration, I guess. Doesn't have to be totally dead, one or two failing cells should also work.

If only once cell is dead ... the pack is not usable at all.

We are not speaking of putting in series NiMh / NiCd / LeadAcid batteries .. which in case one cell get overcharge or under discharged will not be "showstopper"

A Lithium cell when it get weak get charged with little capacity .. even 1/10 or 1/100 of original capacity .. that means all the pack can't be charged anymore when this cell is charge with little Ah .. since further charge will implies to bring the weak cell above the designed voltage and this can cause explosion

Same happen under discharge .. I have no idea what can happen if a Lithium cell got into reverse polarity like I have experience in some NiMh cells in a battery pack (these cells are ruined for ever . but still ... the pack is still sort of usable, only output voltage is reduced .. and less efficient too) .. anyhow ... I guess the PHEV Battery manager should prevent that a single cell go below a specific voltage (3.x Volts) .. like it should check that any cell go above 4.2x voltage

Anyhow ... if only one cell is dead ... or very weak .. the entire battery get dead or very weak ..
So .. I think, it we notice that one single cell has a voltage much difference then the others .. then it could be a potential case for ask for a warranty .. and get the single cell replaced

Check difference in voltage should be done when battery is as discharged as possible .. that means at 0/10% shown on the dash , that means 205 to 30% real SOC .. the battery manager should be designed to balance the cells only at the high voltage (ideally all cells should reach 4.20 volt at same time for consider the battery fully charged, and maximise the use of it .. the battery manager should not try to balance the cells while these get discharged)

Anyhow ...change extremely weak battery would be a good practice .. but I have no idea what is exactly our warranty on the PHEV battery ... somewhere I read that it is consider "none" from Mitsubishi (not sure if this apply to iMEV only)

Assuming 10k / 20K USD for the entire battery pack ... one since cell should cost only 125 to 250 USD ... so possibly the labour is more expensive then not the cost of the new cell .. so ... I would hope that at least one single cell "failure" is cover by warranty .. still even if it is not .. it is not even a big cost to cover

But .. if all the cells will be degenerating down to 30/50% of the original capacity .. then ... I guess the replacement cost is huge .. and I'm afraid Mitsubishi may not cover a cent for this case