Air con issues

[badsimian]

I’ve been getting iron issues for some time. I took my car into the dealer and they said it needed re-gassing and did that for me, for a while it was better. But then I started to get really loud noises coming from the engine bay, my wife experienced this first and I wasn’t there but she took a video of it (attached)

https://imgur.com/a/yVCpZiC

Garage said they couldn’t find any problem and tested everything out, they just said it was really loud. Finally I managed to experience it myself and popped the bonnet. It seems to be to be coming from two large white fans at the front of the engine. The car can be powered on, these fans only then come on if the zircon button is pressed. Having the blowers on with no zircon button causes these fans to stop.

The left hand fan is the one I think is making lots of noise, it isn’t consistent, sometimes it doesn’t make anywhere near as loud a noise. If I had to guess, it would be that bearings are going or the fan is out of alignment or something to cause the noise.

Unfortunately my car has now gone out of warranty so any repair is going to cost me, bit annoying as if the garage had spotted this when I first took it, it would have been covered. Does anyone know if these are general purpose radiator fans that would also get used if the engine gets hot? Are they fans just used with the air con system?

Wondering what my next steps should be?

 

[AndyInOz]

Sounds to me like the fan is hitting something.

Check for a loose wire, or something that is caught anywhere around the fan.

Perhaps check the edges of the blades for damage.

 

[badsimian]

So it turns out that it is actually the clutch going in the air con compressor.

Unfortunately, Mitsubishi want to charge £2700 for a new pump. Insanity.

I can find second hand ones but there appear to be two part numbers floating about,

7813A378 / AKJ200A202D
and
7813A379 / AKJ200A202F

The pumps look identical, I wonder if either could be used?

 

[Darkflow]

So it turns out that it is actually the clutch going in the air con compressor.

I'd be getting further opinions. I'm not sure the compressor even has a clutch, given that it is electrically driven:

http://www.mhi.co.jp/technology/review/pdf/e512/e512044.pdf

When the re-gas was done, could the service centre have used the wrong leak detection dye (if used), or the wrong oil? Either risks damage to the HV compressor:

Leak Detection Dye

There is a specific dye for hybrid electric vehicles that use R-134a in the air conditioning system equipped with an electric compressor. Hybrid electric vehicle leak detection dye is polyolester based and is specific to hybrid electric vehicles.

The R-134a leak dye used for non-hybrid electric vehicles uses PAG oil, which is hygroscopic. Using it in a hybrid vehicle, even in the smallest amount, can create an air conditioning compressor failure. The oil in the dye breaks down the insulating properties of the windings on the electric motor portion of the compressor. These windings are immersed in compressor oil, and ester oil is used to protect the insulation on the windings to prevent electrical leakage. The addition of PAG oil into a hybrid air ­conditioning system designed for ester oil may result in an air conditioning ­system malfunction.

Additionally, in hybrid vehicles with an electric compressor, when a dye containing a lubricant other than ester oil is added to the air conditioning system, it contaminates the air conditioning system. Flushing the system must be performed to remove the dye. In fact, because of the contamination concern with dye, Honda does not approve its use in hybrid vehicles. Toyota does not recommend dye for any of its air conditioning systems.

Hybrid Compressor Do’s and Don’ts

Do’s:

• Do use PAG 46 oil or equivalent on first-­generation 2001-’03 Prius.
• Do use PAG 46 oil or equivalent on 2000-’06 Insight and 2005 Civic.
• Do always refer to manufacturers’ recommendations when servicing A/C systems.
• Do shut down high-voltage battery power when servicing any high-voltage A/C compressor.

Dont’s:

• Do not use any compressor oil other than ND-11 or equivalent on Toyotas.
• Do not use PAG oil on vehicles with HV compressors.
• Do not use any compressor oil other than ­SE-10Y or equivalent on Hondas.
• Do not use any compressor oil other than what’s recommended by the manufacturer.
• Do not use safety or test equipment on high-voltage systems unless they’re tested or certified for use on high-voltage systems.
• Do not flush high-voltage systems.

 

[badsimian]

Well that might have just been my interpretation of a duff explanation. It is the compressor either way regardless of whether it has a clutch. They disconnected the fans to show me the noise is still there.

 

[Darkflow]

I'd still be wondering if someone has inadvertently put the wrong stuff in the system.

Note that as the a/c system is also used for cooling the main battery pack (it also has air cooling), if a/c isn't working there could be battery damage in high load situations.

 

[littlescrote]

Definitely no clutch on the compressor as it is electrically driven. Running with a low refrigerant charge or low on oil can cause compressor damage.

Do not pay that kind of money, just get a used compressor from someone breaking a PHEV. Any capable independent A/C place with a machine dedicated to POE oil can then change it for you, and find the source of your leak which caused you to need to regas it and possibly caused compressor damage (if there is any, I can't watch the video at the moment, but you can expect quite a loud whining fro mthe electrical compressor, particularly during hot weather when it has to work harder).

 

[greendwarf]

Unfortunately my car has now gone out of warranty so any repair is going to cost me, bit annoying as if the garage had spotted this when I first took it, it would have been covered. Does anyone know if these are general purpose radiator fans that would also get used if the engine gets hot? Are they fans just used with the air con system?

Wondering what my next steps should be?

If the dealer failed to properly diagnose the problem, then legally the warranty still covers the repair but you might need to lean on them (and Mitsu UK) to get it done. Threaten to go to trading Standards and/or a solicitor. :idea: