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2019 Upgraded Outlander PHEV in US too?
- Thread starter maverickf
- Start date
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"The new Outlander PHEV hits Europe early this fall, but there's no word yet on when it will come to the US and Canada. "
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2019-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-geneva-reveal-plug-in-hybrid/
My hunch is that it will be quite soon afterwards, but I have no inside knowledge!
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2019-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-geneva-reveal-plug-in-hybrid/
My hunch is that it will be quite soon afterwards, but I have no inside knowledge!
generaltso
Well-known member
Canadian dealers have been informed that the mechanical upgrades will NOT make it to Canada for 2019. I'm pretty sure that means the same will be true for the USA.
Woodman411
Well-known member
I'm also debating whether to jump in now on the 2018 model in the USA market or wait for 2019. I hope Mitsubishi changes their mind about that memo, for both Canada and USA. I was hoping since they all come from the same assembly plant in Japan, all the changes would standardize across all export markets, I was especially looking forward to the 2.4 ICE upgrade since the existing 2.0 is too small/weak for the Outlander's weight. There is still 6 more months to go since that memo came out before the 2019's arrive, so hoping for a change.
Phevy
Well-known member
I can see your hoping, but I decided to jump in, as I am doubtful the credits will remain long enough in place, until the updated PHEV will arrive this side of the pond.
Woodman411
Well-known member
Phevy said:
Not sure how Canada credits work, in the USA, the federal credit gradually decreases as the model gets closer to 200,000 units. USA sales this year probably wont surpass 10,000 units.
yardbird88
Well-known member
maverickf said:
Hi, I am shopping for a 2018 PHEV GT model too in LA. Is your offer in California? I am currently getting $6000 to $7000 off MSRP but has not committed to make a deal yet.
Woodman411
Well-known member
I have verified with a USA Mitsubishi dealer that the Canadian memo mentioned in this thread did not get sent to USA dealers. The USA dealer is expecting, in fact, telling customers that inquire, that powertrain updates are coming for 2019.
generaltso
Well-known member
Woodman411 said:
My guess is that that dealer will have a lot of disappointment customers that based decisions on that information.
Woodman411
Well-known member
generaltso said:
Not just that dealer, this dealer too: http://www.eagletribune.com/business/outlander-phev-makes-hybrid-power-work/article_29041004-90d1-511c-9147-9d7954e36cda.html
Quote: "Mitsubishi Motors will help the cause by making ongoing improvements, such as a longer-life battery that Michaud expects in the upcoming, 2019 model."
And another USA Mitsu dealer expecting powertrain update: https://www.shortlinemitsubishi.com/mitsubishi-outlander-phev.htm
And another one: https://pantilimitsubishi.com/2019-Mitsubishi-Outlander-PHEV-Technology-Spotlight-Princeton-WV
maverickf said:
Could you please let me know which state you got this offer in? In NJ, a dealer is offering $5000 off MSRP ($2000 manufacturer rebate, $3000 dealer discount), but if your state is close enough I'd be happy to fly in to purchase for the additional $2000 discount.
kelmac
Member
maverickf said:
What state are you in? Was this all part of a dealer's discount or did some of it include a manufacturer's rebate, which I believe is $2,000 right now.
kelmac
Woodman411
Well-known member
creddy said:
There are a few dealers on autotrader listing the Outlander PHEV with $7-8k discounts: https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/New+Cars/cars+under+30000/Mitsubishi/Outlander/Beverly+Hills+CA-90210?zip=90210&startYear=1981&endYear=2019&makeCodeList=MIT&searchRadius=0&modelCodeList=OUTLANDER&listingTypes=NEW&engineCodes=HYBRD&maxPrice=30000&sortBy=derivedpriceDESC&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0
One sample:
View attachment Screen Shot 2018-08-03 at 10.07.02 PM.png
Fine print says "price includes all available rebates", so doubtful final discounts will be this much. YMMV, and like with any dealer, be wary about other charges and fees. Another thing to think about are the state rebates available for the Outlander PHEV, not sure how each state compares and how the rebate itself will be affected for out-of-state purchases (in CA, it's $1,500: https://www.driveclean.ca.gov/pev/Costs/Vehicles.php , I couldn't find anything for Indiana)
kelmac
Member
Woodman411 said:
That $8,225 discount would seem to be an "up to" amount which probably includes: 1) $500 military, 2) $500 recent college grad, 3) $500 Mitsubishi loyalty and 4) $500 Mitsubishi VIP / affiliate employee program which would bring the amount down to $6,225 for anyone not eligible for those $500 discounts. The remaining $6,225 almost certainly includes a $2,000 Manufacturer's rebate which I'm pretty sure was available at the beginning of August. The $4,225 is in the ball park of what my research suggests some dealers might be willing to discount. The most motivated dealers seem to be in California. My guess is that's because All Wheel Drive is a harder sell in a warmer climate.
I bought now since I need the tax break this year but I think there is a strong argument to be made that given Trump's hostility towards the EPA and all things green that the EV/PHEV credits might go away altogether, having nothing to do with how few EV/PHEV cars Mitsubishi has sold. There is a February 2017 Forbes article suggesting this possibility:
Forbes article
Trump And Ryan's Hatred Of EV Tax Credit Is Threat To Tesla - Feb 19, 2017, 09:30pm
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkiley5/2017/02/19/teslas-1-threat-trumps-and-ryans-hatred-of-the-ev-tax-credit/#749a77455bef
“Making matters worse for EV sales going forward is a Republican Congress and Republican President who are trying to weaken the Environmental Protection Agency, and have no intention of extending the federal $7,500 tax credit that subsidizes EV sales in the next budget.”
In any case, I'm not sure that a larger engine and/or greater battery capacity is worth losing out on $6,000 to $7,000 off of MSRP.
Woodman411
Well-known member
kelmac said:
There was uncertainty about the federal ev tax credit... in 2017. It surprisingly survived that same year: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/business/electric-vehicles-taxes-tesla-gm.html
Chances that it will now go away is slim to none. This sentiment is shown in established and recent sources, such as Edmunds and Carfax, who give no hint of the federal ev credit dying anytime soon:
https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the-ins-and-outs-of-electric-vehicle-tax-credits.html
https://www.carfax.com/blog/hybrid-electric-tax-credits
http://www.plugincars.com/federal-and-local-incentives-plug-hybrids-and-electric-cars.html
etc...
In fact, there is even a recent legislation trying to remove the 200k sales cap, this would be a moot point if the federal credit was going away:
https://electrek.co/2018/07/02/new-bill-electric-car-federal-tax-credit-tesla-limit
In summary, I would disagree with "I'm not sure that a larger engine and/or greater battery capacity is worth losing out on $6,000 to $7,000 off of MSRP". I would say with MY2019, those discounts will be there, actually, it will be even greater, since the federal tax credit increases from $5,836 to US $6,711, and with a vastly improved vehicle over MY2018.
kelmac
Member
Woodman411 said:
I may be suffering from a touch of confirmation bias since after extensive comparison shopping I finally bought not one but two 2018 Outlander PHEVs; and since I’m applying for the Massachusetts’ $2,500 rebate I have to keep them for three years.
However, I took another look at the three sources you linked in your post on Monday June 18th. The owner of Michaud Mitsubishi (the dealership mentioned in the Eagle Tribune article) called me a day or so after we walked away from a pretty good deal when his sales manager told us the price was only good for that day, and he wouldn’t put it in writing. I see that their current advertised price is slightly better than the advertised price at the time we were there, but lower than the price I ultimately got from them in writing (following my conversation with the owner). I also note that they have 21 PHEVs in stock. If they are really expecting that the 2019 will be significantly better and they are expecting them anytime soon then I would think they would be more motivated to make a deal, especially with someone planning on buying two of them.
At the end of the day buyers have to make the best educated guess they can based upon the information they have. I’m feeling pretty good about my decision since I’m as confident as I can be that I negotiated two great deals (roughly 15% and 20% off of the MSRPs) and I believe the value of those discounts will ultimately be equal to or greater than the value of the improvements to the 2019 or, for that matter, the 2020 US Outlander PHEV: even after factoring in approximately $1,000 more on the Federal tax credit. Keep in mind that the February article in Topspeed suggests that the UK improvements may not hit the US until 2020. I did email one dealer that posted a video of the anticipated interior and exterior upgrades. Several potential buyers posted questions regarding improvements to the battery and engine and the sales manager essentially said he wasn’t authorized to post information online, but anyone was welcome to contact him; so I emailed him. I’ll let you know if I hear back.
Below I’ve linked articles from Topspeed, Car and Driver, Wired UK, Carbuzz, and Elektrek roughly in chronological order starting in February of 2018 and ending in June of 2018. The two most positive articles about the non US / non Canadian 2019 Outlander PHEV are the most recent ones (Electrek’s and Carbuzz’s in June of 2018 articles). In summary they seem to suggest that although the bulk of the changes are cosmetic, that in combination with modest battery and engine enhancements, cumulatively the changes are significant. Overall, however, the tone of the articles indicate that what should be the more substantial changes –to the battery and engine— are somewhere between “significant tweaks” and “slight increases”, resulting in a “more palatable” car (compared to the 2018). As positive reviews go these seem underwhelming to me.
Anywho, it’s a moot point for me at this time but I’ll be following for more information, partly out of curiosity but also because if the improvements are significant enough three years from now --and if they have stood the test of time-- it might be worth considering trading in, especially if the Federal tax credit is still available (and as you suggest, perhaps even bigger than it is now)
Good luck with your decision.
Topspeed - February 23, 2018
Powertrain updates make this crossover more palatable
https://www.topspeed.com/cars/mitsubishi/2019-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-ar180007.html
Mitsubishi will announce the full details on March 6, but we already have a good understanding of the changes coming for 2019. The U.S. is expected to get this new model, too, though it might not happen until 2020.
Car and Driver - February 22, 2018
2019 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Gets Powertrain Tweaks, Updated Styling
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-gets-powertrain-tweaks-updated-styling
… we presume these changes will make their way to the U.S.-spec car.
The biggest change is to the gasoline engine, which swaps from a 2.0-liter four-cylinder to a 2.4-liter four-cylinder running the Atkinson cycle. Official numbers aren’t yet available, but the company says it provides more torque and improved efficiency. (The 2018 U.S. version is EPA rated for 25 mpg combined.) A few of the electric components are tweaked as well: battery capacity goes from 12.0 kWh to 13.8 kWh, which should improve all-electric driving range—the current car offers an EPA-rated maximum of 22 miles—and the rear-mounted electric motor and generator each get 10 percent greater output.
…
The current Outlander PHEV just recently went on sale here as a 2018 model, so we’re not sure exactly when this updated version will arrive, but it will make its official debut at the 2018 Geneva auto show.
Wired UK - July 1, 2018
The 2019 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV isn’t the hybrid SUV you’ve been waiting for
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-2019-review
Range and charging
Dismantle the 2019 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV and you'll find that many of the oily parts from its predecessor have been replaced or tweaked. The petrol engine is now up from a 2.0-litre capacity to 2.4-litres, while the rear electric motor has been swapped out for a more powerful unit. Generator output has increased by 10 per cent, rear motor output has increased by 10 per cent and the drive battery capacity and output has increased by 15 per cent.
In short, there is a slight increase in overall power, but all-electric battery range remains at the 33-mile mark (or 28 miles according to the new, more stringent real-world WLTP tests), meaning charging from a standard plug socket takes four hours, while plugging in to a 50kWh fast charger sees that time cut to 25 minutes for an 80 per cent charge.
Carbuzz - June 20, 2018
2019 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Offers More Power And Longer Range
https://carbuzz.com/news/2019-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-offers-more-power-and-longer-range
Compared to the outgoing model, the 2.4 liter gasoline engine has increased from 117 hp and 141 lb-ft of torque to 133 hp and 156 lb-ft of torque. Additionally, the electric motor powering the rear axles now makes 94 hp, while the battery output has increased by 10 percent and its overall capacity has increased to 13.8 kWh thanks to the addition of new cells.
…
The 2019 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is slated to go on sale in the UK and Europe this September with pricing and specifications to be announced at a later date. Mitsubishi has shipped over 100,000 Outlander PHEVs across Europe since it was introduced in 2014, but the model only recently went on sale in the US after numerous delays, so it’s probably going to take a long time for the updated Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV to arrive stateside.
Electrek article - June 19, 2018
Mitsubishi slightly increases battery capacity in new 2019 Outlander PHEV
https://electrek.co/2018/06/19/mitsubishi-slightly-increases-battery-capacity-in-new-2019-outlander-phev/
Mitsubishi’s popular plug-in hybrid SUV, the Outlander PHEV, is getting quite a few upgrades with the 2019 version, including a slight increase in battery capacity for a little more range.
When I say “slight”, I mean it.
The battery pack capacity increased by 10% to 13.8 kWh.
It’s enough for an all-electric range of 28 miles (45 km) based on the WLTP standard.
But the increased range is not the only thing that Outlander PHEV’s new battery pack is enabling, the top speed in ‘Electric Vehicle’ mode is now “up from approximately 78mph (125km/h) to 84mph (135km/h) where legally permitted.”
Like the battery pack, the electric motor, which powers the rear wheels of the Outlander PHEV, also saw a 10% increase in output to 95hp.
Here are a few other improvements that Mitsubishi listed:
…
Woodman411
Well-known member
kelmac said:
Two separate points - 1) expecting 2019 to be significantly better - I put up a post here ( http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3755 ) detailing the changes. It's quite a list, whether one feels these changes are significant, is up to you. 2) expecting them anytime soon - maybe not for at least 3 or 4 months. This is a guess based on several factors - USA received MY2018 in December of 2017, there is no hint or link on the USA website to MY2019 - whereas other countries do, announcing a fall/autumn release, and articles have alluded to how USA is not a priority market, due to the relatively low sale price.
kelmac said:
Sounds like you got a great deal, I was just making the point that one should not get MY2018 based on the assumption that the federal tax credit will be gone for MY2019.
kelmac said:
I'll just make a comment about the cosmetic-only-changes-for-Canada-memo. The timing for the MY2019 announcement at the Geneva Auto show in March 2018 was good for most markets, but terrible for USA (since MY2018 just arrived for the first time in December 2017) and catastrophic for Canada, which received MY2018 for the first time at around the same time MY2019 was announced. I can imagine the confusion/frustration of Canadian dealers just receiving a new model, when the global announcement said their new model is old. I have no doubt it's because of this ill-timing, that Mitsubishi Canada sent a memo to their dealers saying their MY2019 version will not include the full updates. I do not know the validity of this memo, it could be legit, or it could be disinformation to encourage buyers not to wait for MY2019. But I do know that USA dealers did not get this memo, and I've listed 3 Mitsubishi USA dealers who have stated on their website that they expect the full updates. And as stated before, whether the updates are worth the wait or not, is up to you.
kelmac
Member
FWIW, below is the email response I got to the inquiry I sent to a dealer that had posted the "walkaround" video of the interior and exterior of the 2019 U.S. Mitsu Outlander PHEV.
"Hello! The wheels will look a tad different, interior will be a tad different. However the engine size and battery size will remain the same for the 2019's.
We were told that from Mitsubishi a few weeks ago."
If this is accurate then it looks like minor cosmetic changes inside and out for 2019 in the U.S. If anyone knows of any dealers who've said otherwise perhaps they could try emailing them.
"Hello! The wheels will look a tad different, interior will be a tad different. However the engine size and battery size will remain the same for the 2019's.
We were told that from Mitsubishi a few weeks ago."
If this is accurate then it looks like minor cosmetic changes inside and out for 2019 in the U.S. If anyone knows of any dealers who've said otherwise perhaps they could try emailing them.
Woodman411
Well-known member
kelmac said:
Care to name your source? I inquired and re-inquired my sources, I guess we'll find out soon who's right:
"the new 2019 PHEV will have a bigger battery and a bigger powertrain, the 2.4." - Aron Nelson, Continental Mitsubishi, Countryside, IL.
"bigger engine from 2.0 to 2.4 and larger battery with a range of 22 to 28 miles on EV mode." - Adam Ferry, Shortline Mitsubishi, Auroro, CO
kelmac
Member
As I mentioned, he said he wasn't authorized to post the information "here", which was the comment section of a YouTube video of a walk around, but which I took to mean online. I don't know why I feel like I should be respectful of that but since it would be easy enough for you to Google the video and comments I might as well tell you it was one of the two sources you mention: Aron Nelson of Continental. I'm guessing you followed up with him more than a few weeks ago, since he told me in his email that's when Mitsubishi told them.
If that's accurate it would seem to me that at some point dealerships will have to make that clearer to try and persuade potential buyers such as yourself (that would otherwise hold out for a significantly upgraded 2019) to buy a 2018 instead.
I still think the 2018 is a lot of value for the money, especially for anyone that does their homework and finds out if there is a manufacturer's rebate, and familiarizes themself with what the most motivated dealers might be willing to discount. Of course a buyer has to be willing to walk if a dealer isn't willing to negotiate.
Based on my experience $8,000 off of MSRP is probably too good to be true but $6,500 to $7,000 might be achievable for anyone eligible for those miscellaneous $500 discounts I mentioned in an earlier post.
Good luck with your decision.
If that's accurate it would seem to me that at some point dealerships will have to make that clearer to try and persuade potential buyers such as yourself (that would otherwise hold out for a significantly upgraded 2019) to buy a 2018 instead.
I still think the 2018 is a lot of value for the money, especially for anyone that does their homework and finds out if there is a manufacturer's rebate, and familiarizes themself with what the most motivated dealers might be willing to discount. Of course a buyer has to be willing to walk if a dealer isn't willing to negotiate.
Based on my experience $8,000 off of MSRP is probably too good to be true but $6,500 to $7,000 might be achievable for anyone eligible for those miscellaneous $500 discounts I mentioned in an earlier post.
Good luck with your decision.
