GS Yuasa drive battery in the PHEV. Lets discuss.

So lets have a closer look at the manufacturer of the drive battery cells.

What do we know about GS Yuasa.?

This is taken off their website.

Yuasa:
1913 Founder Shichizaemon Yuasa begins research into metal electrolysis
1915 Yuasa Battery Manufacturing established within the Yuasa Iron Works in Sakai City, Osaka Prefecture; production starts on storage batteries

Ok been around for a while. Not some fly by nighter.

GS:
1895 Genzo Shimadzu manufacturers Japan's first lead-acid storage battery
1908 First use of the "GS" trademark
1912 Storage battery plant (Shin-machi,lmadegawa) built

Been around even longer.

Ps there is a lot of good history showing there if you want to look.

Now when did these companies start "getting their hands dirty" with Lithium batteries.

GS:
1993 Prismatic Lithium-ion batteries developed
1995 Shandong Huari Battery Co., Ltd established, industrial battery manufacturing and sales affiliate in China
1997 GS-Melcotec Co., Ltd. established, lithium-ion battery manufacturing and sales subsidiary (SANYO GS Soft Energy Co., Ltd. at present) Beijing Ri Jia Power Supply, Co., Ltd. established, the first overseas industrial power supply system manufacturing and sales affiliate in China

Yuasa:
1998 Ultra-thin lithium-ion polymer secondary battery launched

So they have been playing around with lithium for a few years I suppose. :lol:

And this:

2004 GS Yuasa Corporation established

Now I went to GS Yuasa Lithium Power website and saw this:

"The history of GS Yuasa Corporation spans more than a century. GS Yuasa was formed in 2004 as the result of a merger between Japan Storage Battery (JSB) and Yuasa Corporation. Japan Storage Battery was founded in 1895, and manufactured the first lead-acid storage battery in Japan. In the early 1990’s, JSB began manufacturing Large Format Lithium Ion batteries and introduced large format prismatic lithium ion batteries in 1993. Yuasa Corporation was founded in 1913 and by 2004, had become one of the top power sport and automotive battery manufacturers in the world.

The merger of Yuasa Corp. and JSB created one of the largest battery manufacturing companies in the world with annual revenues in excess of $3.4B USD. The new enterprise, GS Yuasa Corporation, brought greater economies of scale and operating efficiencies enabling the new organization to better focus on innovative product design, satisfying global customers and increasing the resources available for Research and Development initiatives.

In 2006, GS Yuasa Lithium Power (GYLP) was established as a subsidiary of GS Yuasa Corporation to bring GS Yuasa’s exceptional lithium ion products to the North American market. GYLP is located in Roswell, Georgia and employs an engineering staff with more than 60 years of experience in the battery and aerospace industries. Our expertise in lithium ion cells, electronics, mechanical engineering, prototyping and testing enables us to collaboratively develop battery solutions with our customers that meet the most rigorous standards for performance, reliability and safety."

To be continued:

Now as as follow onto my first post:

Also from GS Yuasa Lithium Power website.

"GS Yuasa has been a pioneer in the creation of commercial lithium ion batteries, including the development of a large-format prismatic lithium ion battery in 1993. Our competitiveness is built on the knowledge, technology and expertise gained from decades of research and development, and substantial market experience.

Using large format lithium ion cells manufactured by GS Yuasa at our state–of-the-art, mass production battery plants, GYLP uses its system knowledge and experience to design, build and deliver highly engineered, reliable solutions to its North American customers. GS Yuasa’s extensive research and development, and decades of application knowledge and experience supports GYLP’s engineering and product development efforts.

Our lithium ion cells have been successfully deployed in satellites and vehicles used to resupply the International Space Station as well as, rockets, commercial aircraft, electric and hybrid electric vehicles, hybrid cranes, railroad rolling stock, stationary energy storage systems, automated guided vehicles, and manned and unmanned undersea research vessels.

Several of our lithium ion cells have been qualified for space travel, including a man-rated battery system that has passed the NASA qualification standards for Crewed Space Vehicle Operation.

Our expertise enables us to deliver highly reliable, high value solutions enabling our customers to meet their project schedules and business objectives. Our areas of functional expertise include, but are not limited to:

Battery design and assembly
Cell and battery testing and qualification
Modeling and simulation
Program management
Quality management
ITAR compliance
Export control and compliance"

Ok I am impressed. A man rated-battery system for space travel. Not easy to get as some of the Nth American members here may attest.

I am quite heavily into aviation and have read quite a bit about man rated rockets etc.

They go on to talk about manufacturing:

"Over the last 5 years, GS Yuasa has invested over $1.0B in upgrading, expanding and adding to its lithium ion cell manufacturing plants. There are currently five lithium ion manufacturing facilities with more than 1.1 million square feet of manufacturing space. Two additional facilities are under construction which will bring the total manufacturing space to more than 1.6 million square feet with the capacity to produce more than 2.6GWh of lithium ion cells by the end of 2012. These plants produce highly customized cell designs as well as automotive grade, mass production cells used in electric and hybrid electric cars.

In addition to manufacturing the battery cells, our facilities conduct extensive performance and safety testing such as charge/discharge, shock, vibration, and cycle life."

So they getting bigger. The PHEV would be helping here I think.

They then go onto talk about quality:

"GYLP demonstrates its corporate commitment to quality through its achievement of ISO 9001 and AS9100 certification by Det Norske Veritas. GYLP’s implementation of and adherence to these quality standards enables us to effectively and accurately control quality and manage risk. Our Quality Management System provides us the means to control, validate and trace all processes associated with product design, manufacturing and delivery.

Our professional staff is experienced in managing highly technical and complex programs. This ensures meeting project milestones and the successful, on-time delivery of battery systems that are fully compliant to our customer’s specifications.

Our QMS program is not limited to engineering and manufacturing activity. It is applied throughout our business operations; from purchasing components, to packaging and shipment of complete systems, customer satisfaction monitoring, and all other processes associated with delivering mission critical battery systems that meet or exceed customer requirements.

ISO

In addition to its investment in Quality Management Systems, GYLP has invested in the equipment necessary to ensure delivery of highly reliable batteries that perform to our customers’ demanding specifications and requirements. A partial list of our investments includes:

Class 100K Clean Room
Battery cell and pack test equipment
Thermal chambers
Vibration test equipment
Vacuum chamber
Environmentally controlled storage facilities"

Ok test equipment looks pretty impressive to my lowly engineer's eye.

To be continued.

And this:

However, the ISS Li-Ion batteries have been
designed for 60,000 cycles and ten years of lifetime. In
addition, they will incorporate cell balancing and
adjustable end of charge voltage technology in order to maximize their lifetime.
Li-Ion batteries have experienced notable issues in the past, in the form of overheating and “thermal
runaway” problems on the Boeing 787 Dreamliner aircraft.
However, the Li-Ion batteries that will be used on the ISS,
although manufactured by the same company (GS
Yuasa), have been designed incorporating lessons
learned from the 787 issues, and have passed rigorous..........

Now onto the PHEV

But let's download a image of what I think is in the PHEV.



Now I stated this in April 2015:

Trex said:

I think this is a cell (there are 80 of them) from the Phev's Hv battery pack. This is the only one on GS Yuasa Corp website that comes close to the specs quoted by Mitsubishi and is same colour as seen on page 1 of this discussion or sticky.

Note it says 50Ah where the Phev specs shows 40Ah but I think this is because Mitsubishi derate the battery for longevity. This battery is 50Ah 6C discharge (300 amps) derated to 40Ah 5C (200 amps). Good for long life.

Regards Trex.

Material from GS Yuasa Corp

Click to expand...

So now it is 2018 and I still think it still might hold true those words I wrote in April 2015. Still no LEV 40 on their website. I guess they could have made a special battery for Misubishi and will not sell to others but I still think that is highly unlikely.

So it's a Lithium battery but what chemistry? As I am sure people here know there are many types.

Well I think it is Lithium Manganese Oxide. How do I know, I hear you ask. Well that is a good question.

Alright I will tell you. :lol:



Now this is under their LEV 50 section on their website. See LMO graphite on their image.

So I think we have a Lithium Manganese Oxide battery cell (or 80 of them)

To be continued

So on we go.

If I am right about Lithium Manganese Oxide (LiMn2O4) cells being used in our drive batteries this is what the Battery University says:

"Lithium Manganese Oxide (LiMn2O4)
Li-ion with manganese spinel was first published in the Materials Research Bulletin in 1983. In 1996, Moli Energy commercialized a Li-ion cell with lithium manganese oxide as cathode material. The architecture forms a three-dimensional spinel structure that improves ion flow on the electrode, which results in lower internal resistance and improved current handling. A further advantage of spinel is high thermal stability and enhanced safety, but the cycle and calendar life are limited.

Low internal cell resistance enables fast charging and high-current discharging. In an 18650 package, Li-manganese can be discharged at currents of 20–30A with moderate heat buildup. It is also possible to apply one-second load pulses of up to 50A. A continuous high load at this current would cause heat buildup and the cell temperature cannot exceed 80°C (176°F). Li-manganese is used for power tools, medical instruments, as well as hybrid and electric vehicles."

And:

"The cathode crystalline formation of lithium manganese oxide has a three-dimensional framework structure that appears after initial formation. Spinel provides low resistance but has a more moderate specific energy than cobalt.
Courtesy of Cadex

Li-manganese has a capacity that is roughly one-third lower than Li-cobalt. Design flexibility allows engineers to maximize the battery for either optimal longevity (life span), maximum load current (specific power) or high capacity (specific energy). For example, the long-life version in the 18650 cell has a moderate capacity of only 1,100mAh; the high-capacity version is 1,500mAh.

Figure 5 shows the spider web of a typical Li-manganese battery. The characteristics appear marginal but newer designs have improved in terms of specific power, safety and life span. Pure Li-manganese batteries are no longer common today; they may only be used for special applications."

Ok will bring in figure 5 later.

and this:

"Most Li-manganese batteries blend with lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide (NMC) to improve the specific energy and prolong the life span. This combination brings out the best in each system, and the LMO (NMC) is chosen for most electric vehicles, such as the Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt and BMW i3. The LMO part of the battery, which can be about 30 percent, provides high current boost on acceleration; the NMC part gives the long driving range.

Li-ion research gravitates heavily towards combining Li-manganese with cobalt, nickel, manganese and/or aluminum as active cathode material. In some architecture, a small amount of silicon is added to the anode. This provides a 25 percent capacity boost; however, the gain is commonly connected with a shorter cycle life as silicon grows and shrinks with charge and discharge, causing mechanical stress.

These three active metals, as well as the silicon enhancement can conveniently be chosen to enhance the specific energy (capacity), specific power (load capability) or longevity. While consumer batteries go for high capacity, industrial applications require battery systems that have good loading capabilities, deliver a long life and provide safe and dependable service.


Summary Table

Lithium Manganese Oxide: LiMn2O4 cathode. graphite anode
Short form: LMO or Li-manganese (spinel structure) Since 1996
Voltages 3.70V (3.80V) nominal; typical operating range 3.0–4.2V/cell
Specific energy (capacity) 100–150Wh/kg
Charge (C-rate) 0.7–1C typical, 3C maximum, charges to 4.20V (most cells)
Discharge (C-rate) 1C; 10C possible with some cells, 30C pulse (5s), 2.50V cut-off
Cycle life 300–700 (related to depth of discharge, temperature)
Thermal runaway 250°C (482°F) typical. High charge promotes thermal runaway
Applications Power tools, medical devices, electric powertrains
Comments High power but less capacity; safer than Li-cobalt; commonly mixed with NMC to improve performance.
Table 6: Characteristics of Lithium Manganese Oxide."

To be continued.

I have to go now but should be back later to finish this unless others have finished it for me.

Hi there and thanks for starting this great topic.

However I think the PHEV uses LEV40 cells as the following website refers to it:
"Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV doesn’t use the same LEV50N cells that are in i-MiEV’s battery pack. Instead it uses LEV40 cells. These cells are made specifically for PHEVs."
https://pushevs.com/2015/11/12/gs-yuasa-new-cells/

Based on your research the chemistry is (and knowing something about chemistries it's also not hard to guess): LiMn2O4 or in its more prevalent name: IMR.

Here's a video of a guy dismantling the PHEV battery pack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf9fDbwF1K0

You can see the 5 rows of cells, each row consisting of 2*8 cells, and one cell measures ~3.7 volts and 40 Ah. Very interesting is to know that the LEV50 cells are being charged by a maximum current of 100 A - according to its documentation - for ~13-14 minutes (then current drops, full charging time is 3hours).

That's an important detail because 100 A is roughly equivalent to the charge power of the B5 regen mode (30 kWh). But we must remember that LEV40's are 20% less capacity than LEV50's so their optimal charge current shouldn't be more than 80 A (theoretically), however I still don't think that with using the B5 regen it would damage the PHEV battery (it also shouldn't as per Mitsubishi's design, anyway...)

Ok I am back.

Now here is a another image. Now even though they saying LIM50EN I think this is still the LEP50. They still have a picture of the LEP50 showing.



Sorry its a bit blurry, probably from me blowing it up too much but I can fix that later if it upsets too many of you.

To be continued.

So on Evbatmon I noticed that I am down to a battery condition showing 76.68%.

I have to go for my yearly service next week, coming up 4yr old soon , and will get my usual battery report printed off.

There I will discuss with Mitsi where I go from here. But I can assure everybody that this in no way worries me at this moment.

This to me is not a problem but just another challenge.

One way or another, I will get it sorted. I have complete faith in my abilities with these sort of challenges. I am looking forward to what I will learn.

Should be easy compared to some of the other challenges I face in my business.

Regards Trex.

Ps Will do another range test soon and see how that side of it is going because the wife, who mainly drives the PHEV, is not noticing any difference with the degradation.

Click to expand...

I would love if all my customers are like you

Ready to fight against everything ... with any tool ... for defend an acquired product

PS: About GS Yuasa ... you are making a lot of confusion ...
Why you need to report the LIM50EN battery ? These a have been develop after the Outlander PHEV have been released

Our PHEV use LEV40 .. which is a customized smaller size then LEV50 used on iMEV

Here is the relevant documentation of our battery: https://www.gs-yuasa.com/en/technic/vol5/pdf/05_1_021.pdf

The cycle life test at 25 ℃ after 1000 cycles showed capacity retention of 85%.

Click to expand...

This is in the report ... and it is not a brilliant achievement (or maybe it was back in 2008 when these battery was developed) ... and is looking in line with our high battery degradation in our PHEV

mrqz said:

... Very interesting is to know that the LEV50 cells are being charged by a maximum current of 100 A - according to its documentation - for ~13-14 minutes (then voltage drops, full charging time is 3hours).

That's an important detail because 100 A is roughly equivalent to the charge power of the B5 regen mode (30 kWh). But we must remember that LEV40's are 20% less capacity than LEV50's so their optimal charge current shouldn't be more than 80 A (theoretically), however I still don't think that with using the B5 regen it would damage the PHEV battery (it also shouldn't as per Mitsubishi's design, anyway...)

Click to expand...

The good news is that cell chemistry is 'adjusted' to favor either 'power' or 'energy'. Power cells are tailored to the 'spiky' nature of things like hybrid cars and electric grid balancing. The even better news is that power spikes are much less harmful to a battery than a sustained charge or discharge at the same rate.

Here's a report of tests conducted by Sandia Labs, affiliated with the US Dept of Energy. The cells under test are cylindrical LiFePO4, but the relative effect of the tests holds fairly well across the lithium ion family.

http://www.catcoinwallets.com/images/posts/EV/SANDIA2008-5583.pdf

You can see the parameters of the 'Hybrid Pulse Power Test' (HPPT) on page 15. Note that these 10Ah cells are sourcing and sinking 40A pulses - 4C. That's equivalent to our 40Ah cells getting 160A pulses. In that service, a cell that will deliver about 3000 full charge/discharge cycles before degrading to 80% capacity was able to deliver more than 198,000 runs through the HPPT test.

Hybrid service is much easier on cells than pure EV service. And B5 is not an issue.

elm70 said:

Our PHEV use LEV40 .. which is a customized smaller size then LEV50 used on iMEV

Here is the relevant documentation of our battery: https://www.gs-yuasa.com/en/technic/vol5/pdf/05_1_021.pdf

Click to expand...

It appears that PDF is actually for the LEV50 - do you have info for the LEV40?

elm70 said:

The cycle life test at 25 ℃ after 1000 cycles showed capacity retention of 85%.

Click to expand...

This is in the report ... and it is not a brilliant achievement (or maybe it was back in 2008 when these battery was developed) ... and is looking in line with our high battery degradation in our PHEV

Click to expand...

You're right - 1000 cycles isn't as large as some other cell types. If the cycle life was most important, automakers would use LiFePO4 and enjoy more than 3000 cycles under the same constant current charge/discharge cycle testing. Automakers don't use LiFePO4 because they're more expensive and they'd result in a heavier battery. Auto makers are going for 'cheaper and lighter' LiMn-type cells and accepting the shorter (but "long enough to meet warranty requirements") cycle life. (Or they're going for even "cheaper and lighter" LiCo and accepting that they need better thermal management to keep the car from exploding cough...Tesla...cough.)

http://www.lithiumenergy.jp/en/newsrelease/index.html

From the press-release from GS-Yuasa ... it is looking like that the only customer for their Lithium Battery was, is and will be only Mitsubishi

So ... all they know about Lithium Battery for EV is more or less, what they are experimenting over PHEV and iMieV

Quite a different story compared to Tesla with collaboration with Panasonic

Lithium Energy Japan was founded in December 2007 following the merger of three companies: GS Yuasa International Ltd., Mitsubishi Corporation and Mitsubishi Motors Corporation. It specializes in the development, manufacture and sale of large lithium-ion batteries.

Click to expand...

elm70 said:

http://www.lithiumenergy.jp/en/newsrelease/index.html

From the press-release from GS-Yuasa ... it is looking like that the only customer for their Lithium Battery was, is and will be only Mitsubishi

So ... all they know about Lithium Battery for EV is more or less, what they are experimenting over PHEV and iMieV

Quite a different story compared to Tesla with collaboration with Panasonic

Lithium Energy Japan was founded in December 2007 following the merger of three companies: GS Yuasa International Ltd., Mitsubishi Corporation and Mitsubishi Motors Corporation. It specializes in the development, manufacture and sale of large lithium-ion batteries.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Daimler did the same thing for the smart BEV - LiTec is/was a joint project between MB and Deutsch ACCUmotive (and possibly the chemical company Evonik). AESC (supplier of cells to Nissan) was a joint project of Nissan and NEC. LiTec's going away, and AESC's been sold. It appears that automakers are finding it more profitable to buy cells from companies that are good at making cells.

It'll be interesting to see who makes cells for the 2019 Outlander PHEV and Mitsu's other plug-ins now that Nissan's in the house.

So on I go.

Now as a part of discussing GS Yuasa drive battery or their lithium cells I think we have to bring up any problems they had in producing them.

Now probably most know about the Outlander Phev lithium battery problems in 2013. I certainly do because it delayed when I was supposed get it. :lol:

There is plenty out there about that problem, and I will let you look that up, and we have not seen a recurrence yet as far as I know.

Again GS Yuasa lithium batteries were involved in the Boeing 787 Dreamliner. Now as far as I know these were a Lithium cobalt oxide (LiCoO2) battery chemistry.

But they have again appeared to have solved that problem. Have not seen any reoccurrence and like I said before I am heavily into aviation. One of my best friends,
who I learnt to fly with, is at this moment doing Captain simulator training on the B787 (he starts flying it in April for Qantas) so I do take a bit of an interest in this. I actually hope to get to fly the Qantas simulator myself later this year if my friend can wrangle it. He has done it for me before in other aircraft. I have just been lucky to have him as a friend.

But I digress again. Sorry.

So these are some of the problems I know about with GS Yuasa and I am sure we will hear about the degradation of the PHEV's drive battery mentioned also.

To be continued.

Now I am going to make a short summary of my research.

GS Yuasa in one form or another have been around some time.

Been making Lithium batteries for awhile.

Used in space travel among other things like our PHEV.

I think they are using a LEV50 cell derated to 40ah.

I think the chemistry is Lithium Manganese Oxide (LiMn2O4) with probably other chemicals added.

They have had problems before with their Lithium cells.

I will leave it there for the moment. I can add to this later.

Regards Trex.

Trex said:

I think they are using a LEV50 cell derated to 40ah.

Click to expand...

This would be a good thing if it was happening. Why do you think this though - especially since there are examples of Outlander PHEV battery box tear-downs that clearly show LEV40s?

HHL said:

And this:

However, the ISS Li-Ion batteries have been
designed for 60,000 cycles and ten years of lifetime. In
addition, they will incorporate cell balancing and
adjustable end of charge voltage technology in order to maximize their lifetime.
Li-Ion batteries have experienced notable issues in the past, in the form of overheating and “thermal
runaway” problems on the Boeing 787 Dreamliner aircraft.
However, the Li-Ion batteries that will be used on the ISS,
although manufactured by the same company (GS
Yuasa), have been designed incorporating lessons
learned from the 787 issues, and have passed rigorous..........

Click to expand...

Sorry I did not answer you before HHL.

I wanted to keep myself on track and not get diverted. I was going to bring up what some of what you mention here later.

mrqz said:

Hi there and thanks for starting this great topic.

Click to expand...

Hi and thanks.

mrqz said:

Hi there and thanks for starting this great topic.

However I think the PHEV uses LEV40 cells as the following website refers to it:
"Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV doesn’t use the same LEV50N cells that are in i-MiEV’s battery pack. Instead it uses LEV40 cells. These cells are made specifically for PHEVs."
https://pushevs.com/2015/11/12/gs-yuasa-new-cells/

Click to expand...

That website from what I can see shows no proof one way or another.

Actually I think they have taken the image I put on here over there without giving us here any credit. :twisted:

Now for rest of your post especially the bit about not being hard to guess the chemistry I will leave till later.

AndyH said:

Trex said:

I think they are using a LEV50 cell derated to 40ah.

Click to expand...

This would be a good thing if it was happening. Why do you think this though - especially since there are examples of Outlander PHEV battery box tear-downs that clearly show LEV40s?

Click to expand...

Hi AndyH,

If it the same box tear-down I have seen some time ago where does it say LEV40. He was going to check capacity down to I think 2.7v but on another video I saw of the I think was a Scottish gentleman only tested down to 3.4v from memory and got about 40ah capacity. That is right on line with one of those graphs I brought in for the LEV50.

Are there any other videos you know about? Happy to be proven wrong.

Regards Trex.

Ps You get that pdf off your dealer yet. I can provide you with my sample if you cannot get it and we can ask anko about lending his. I think someone else had a copy on here as well at one stage.

Trex said:

AndyH said:

Trex said:

I think they are using a LEV50 cell derated to 40ah.

Click to expand...

This would be a good thing if it was happening. Why do you think this though - especially since there are examples of Outlander PHEV battery box tear-downs that clearly show LEV40s?

Click to expand...

Hi AndyH,

If it the same box tear-down I have seen some time ago where does it say LEV40. He was going to check capacity down to I think 2.7v but on another video I saw of the I think was a Scottish gentleman only tested down to 3.4v from memory and got about 40ah capacity. That is right on line with one of those graphs I brought in for the LEV50.

Are there any other videos you know about? Happy to be proven wrong.

Regards Trex.

Ps You get that pdf off your dealer yet. I can provide you with my sample if you cannot get it and we can ask anko about lending his. I think someone else had a copy on here as well at one stage.

Click to expand...

I just saw the tear-down but not the capacity testing - thanks!

No, haven't been to the local dealer yet for the PDF - I'm still working on the pages you posted.

Now for people worried about me using graph or images of LIM50EN instead of LEV50 I think you may find that LIM50EN is a module number made of LEV50 cells.
They even have a picture of the LEV50 showing.

But as I have said before I am happy to be proven wrong.

But I will bring these in as well.